Bristow and sutor

[Stevie c]

Hello to all my wife and I and a friend used to live at a rented address some 8 years ago and we have just been sent a council tax bill for £98 for that address the bill was sent to me and my wife's house but addressed to all three of us I was on benefits at the time and had my tax paid for by my benefits my wife paid a lump some that year to cover her tax but our friend didn't pay anything it's now gone to b&s which they have visited twice and now the bill is over £250 now they threaten removal of goods we have not answered the the door we tried to speak to the council but they say they don't have are details for that long ago when we were on benefits please advise
Steve

[labman]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Firstly, and most importantly for you, do not open the door. Keep it locked and keep downstairs windows shut. If they can't gain peaceful entry, they can charge for two visits (£42.50) but will eventually have to pass the debt back to the council. They cannot force entry whatever they say.

In the morning, phone the council and find out how many Liability Orders there are, and the value of each (it sounds like just one). You know how much the debt is then.

If you can, pay this direct to the council using their online payment system or automated phone call system.

Next get a receipt from the council saying the debt is settled. You will then just owe the £42.50 to B&s for their two visits.

If you can't afford to repay the full amount, write to the council's Head of Revenues saying that B&S have overcharged as they should only have charged £42.50 for the two visits, and ask that the council take the debt back, proposing a sensible repayment schedule over two or three months. Don't expect him to accept this, as he will probably write back backing his enforcement agents - this is good news.

Simultaneously send this to B&S:

Dear Sir,


Your Ref: abc123


With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.


Yours faithfully,



Once you get responses to both of these, post up again and we'll sort out the next step for you.



Don't forget - they cannot force entry, don't let them in, if you have a car, park it a few streets away so they cannot levy on that. They will lie and cheat, but as long as they don't get in, there's little they can do.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Adding to Labman's advice, any threats to kick the door down, come back with a locksmith, call the police or if they start kicking the door, dial 999 and ask the police to attend. Tell them that someone claiming to be a bailiff is at your door threatening whatever. On no account tell the police it is a bailiff. The reason for this is because the police will try and fob you off, saying "It's a civil matter" (Believe me, it's not. And I'm a retired policeman!) if you tell them a bailiff is at your door. Should a forcible entry be made, the bailiffs are committing a serious criminal offence (Burglary). In the event this happens make sure you have black, cayenne or chilli pepper to hand. This is to throw in the bailiff's face. Before you do so, you should block their path and order them to leave immediately. If they refuse and/or try to push past you or assault you, you are then within your rights to use reasonable force to defend yourself and your property, which is where the pepper comes in.

A bailiff is not permitted to make a forcible entry to property unless authorised in writing by a Magistrate/Justice of the Peace/Judge.

Follow Labman's excellent advice - as always - and you shouldn't have to resort to peppering the bailiff.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Hello to all my wife and I and a friend used to live at a rented address some 8 years ago and we have just been sent a council tax bill for £98 for that address the bill was sent to me and my wife's house but addressed to all three of us I was on benefits at the time and had my tax paid for by my benefits my wife paid a lump some that year to cover her tax but...

I see two issues here.

Your benefits were not properly administered creating a liability in error. To settle the problem of administration error in your council tax benefits, you must ask the council to make the appropriate correction, and if they wont, you need to make an application for a tribunal.

The documents were sent to someone elses address. This can only be resolved in a letter which is clearly marked Formal Complaint.

HEAD OF COUNCIL TAX ENFORCEMENT]
[NAME OF] Council
[ADDRESS & POSTCODE]

[DATE]

Dear Sir.

FORMAL COMPLAINT

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

Re: Council tax [ACCOUNT NO.] & [amount AS SHOWN ON THE LIABILITY ORDER]

I make this formal complaint because I received bailiff from you on [DATE] collecting the aforementioned liability without having been sent a Final Notice or a Reminder to my home address as required by enforcement regulations.

To resolve this complaint:

1. Return the case to council administration and comply with comply with Regulation 33(3) and 34(1)
2. The council makes the necessary investigation why no Final Notice or Reminder was send to the address the bailiff attended.
3. Quash the Liability Order under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003 and confirm in writing this has been done.

I will make the repayments for what I lawfully owe in affordable monthly installments of [AMOUNT] starting on [DATE].

If you are unable, or unwilling to resolve this complaint in full, please mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene.

Yours Faithfully.



[NAME]
Encs. Copy of:
Bailiffs document
1st installment cheque

[labman]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Stevie,

Your thread is not the place for disagreements, but while you can try sending the letter above, I fear you will get little joy from it. The council are likely to take the view that you owe the money, and they are doing their job in collecting monies owed to the public purse.

Usually in my experience, and I have dealt with over 100 of Council Tax cases in the past year and a bit, a gentler approach where you let them dig their own hole seems to work. I have not yet had a case where it hasn't.

It is entirely up to you, but my feeling is the formal complaint should come, but only when you have them 100% bang to rights.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow and sutor

If you write to a council asking them to do something, there is little to compel them to do follow your request. They can even blame it on staff shortages to get out of doing something that does not work in the council’s favour. A formal complaint letter stops that.


Its nothing about bang to rights, the council needs a very good reason, such as a point of law or a regulation what prevents them following your request.

There is nothing worse for a complainant than getting into an endless volley or correspondence with a list of excuses.

[labman]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Hmmmm........

two letters, one to Head of Revenues, one for breakdown of fees to bailiffs, followed by one letter to CEO if needed.

Entirely up to the poster though.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow and sutor

He doesnt need to send a letter to the bailiffs for a breakdown of fees, £24.50. The law prescribes it, and the OP has not mentioned anything about distress being levied on his goods, so there are no costs of distress to enquire about.

[labman]

Re: Bristow and sutor

I disagree. He says they have visited twice which, in law, is £42.50. He also says the bill is now over £250, so a breakdown of how B&S feel they can justify this would be very interesting and good solid evidence for the OP to use against the council.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow and sutor

The bailiff will say he has charged a fee for attending in a van, or charged a Head H fee.

[labman]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Probably, but as we know he can't lawfully do that. Once you have the breakdown of fees you can really turn the screw.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow and sutor

Try it, heres a template.

[NAME OF BAILIFFS]
[ADDRESS]
[AND POSTCODE]

Dear Sir

[DATE]

Re: Case ref/In the matter of: [case number/description of problem]


1. Please send me within fourteen days of the date of this letter, a breakdown of your fees [AMOUNT] you applied in the above matter

2. For each fee item charged:

a) Identify what regulation had been followed
b) on what date was the work done
c) at what location was the work done

3. Truthfully confirm:

a) all costs you have have chaged is not for gain
b) the scale of fees comply with the law


Please note: Nothing in this letter is asking you to disclose any personal data about me in the meaning of the Data Protection Act 1998.

Yours Truly,


[YOUR NAME]

If preferred, you can ask the bailiff make a sworn statement for the above, a rather brutal approach, but two things usually happen: the bailiffs fees quietly disappear, or the bailiff responds with explosive threats of police and blackmail.