Council tax & bailiffs

[cards down]

my wife and I have had what we feel is a rough deal regarding an old council tax debt, on reading some of the posts on this site we know that the bailiffs have acted well outside their guidelines and the council are aware of this. The council have now instructed the bailiffs(for the second time) to review our financial situation in the view of increasing our repayments. We have got to the point where we are fed up at being bullied and pushed around by these people and we're looking for some advice on how to tackle this. There is a walking possession agreement against this debt but we have now noticed that the amount is actually over £250 pounds more than the council tax debt itself (this is not the bailiff fees), we have a letter from the council stating the debt is for one amount and a walking possession agreement plus many more letters from the bailiff company with the greater amount showing. The bailiffs have pursued the greater amount for over a year and have never issued us with any documents with the correct original or outstanding debt. Another issue is that the value of the items listed in the walking possession would never cover the original debt.

any advice will be much appreciated

Thank you

[Guest]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

In reality, bailiffs have nothing to gain by clearing your house of furniture. If he says he will turn up with a van then he is probably bluffing.

Back in the Victorian era, people's assets contained much of their wealth. This is why the mention of the word bailiffs conjures up images of burly men in black suits carrying furniture out of homes and loading it into vans. Today's socio-legal context on civil enforcement does not favour bailiffs clearing out homes because modern furniture has no significant value, and there are no buyers who would want it anyway.

I cant see what grounds you have to make a formal complaint other than the bailiffs have behamed improperly or they have made a vexatious levy (a levy on goods of no significant value and intended to enable the bailiff to charge a fee). You post does not say you have been assaulted by a bailiff.

My feeling on the way forward is negotiate with the council, and make some noise about the bailiffs behaviour. Its easy to catch him out with his fees. Such a complaint can only be made in writing and addressed to the council. - Example;

[HEAD OF COUNCIL TAX ENFORCEMENT]
[NAME OF] Council
[ADDRESS & POSTCODE]

[DATE]

Dear sir.

FORMAL COMPLAINT

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

Re: Council tax [ACCOUNT NO.] & [amount AS SHOWN ON THE LIABILITY ORDER]

I make this formal complaint because on [DATE] I received a visit from a man who said his name was Mr. [NAME OF BAILIFF] and he was a bailiff acting on your behalf collecting the aforementioned Council tax and demanded the sum of [AMOUNT].

Mr. [NAME OF BAILIFF] indiscriminately over-charged me with his fees that are not compliant with prescribed Council Tax enforcement regulations and for work he has not done. There are no costs incurred by Mr. [NAME OF BAILIFF] and no costs order has been made against me by a court. This may constitute an offence under the 2006 Fraud Act.

I confirm no goods have been taken or physically removed (distress) by Mr. [NAME OF BAILIFF] and no goods were needed to be collected my me.

To resolve this complaint:

1. Return the case to council administration.

2. The council makes the necessary investigation why I was over-charged.

3. Do the necessary work to ensure the person responsible for over charging me is made accountable under both, civil law and criminal law and the investigation is made objectively and professionally.
4. Make the necessary complaint to the appropriate court regarding the bailiff’s fitness to hold a certificate.

I will make the repayments for what I lawfully owe in affordable monthly installments of [AMOUNT] starting on [DATE].

If you are unable, or unwilling to resolve this complaint in full, please mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene[ and start a claim in the county court to recover the unlawful fees].

Yours Faithfully.


[YOUR NAME]
Encs. Copy of:
Bailiffs document.
1st installment cheque.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

If the descriptions of the goods listed on the WPA are sufficiently vague - just "television, microwave, radio, computer" and so on, rather than stating what each item actually is - it may be possible to play a little trick on the bailiff.

Get the items listed from a second-hand shop, from adverts in the local press or from the recycling centre; it does not matter if the items do not work or look in poor condition, as long as they match the descriptions in the WPA. Remove the equivalent items that you wish to keep and store them in a friend's house, then telephone the ba:censored:rd bailiffs and tell them that, as you cannot maintain payments, they might as well remove the goods in the WPA.

These antics should be rather cheaper than getting a solicitor to challenge a vexatious levy. :tinysmile_grin_t:

[cards down]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Sorry I may have caused some confusion in my original post. The council said the debt of X amount was passed to the bailiff back in 2010, but the bailiff paperwork(notice of distress) stated the original debt was over £250 more than what the council had stated, the bailiffs fees where then listed on top of this amount. Hope that makes sense.

That sounds like a cunning plan clever clogs

[Guest]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

use the taeplate above and get the case back to council administration.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

If the descriptions of the goods listed on the WPA are sufficiently vague - just "television, microwave, radio, computer" and so on, rather than stating what each item actually is - it may be possible to play a little trick on the bailiff.

Get the items listed from a second-hand shop, from adverts in the local press or from the recycling centre; it does not matter if the items do not work or look in poor condition, as long as they match the descriptions in the WPA. Remove the equivalent items that you wish to keep and store them in a friend's house, then telephone the ba:censored:rd bailiffs and tell them that, as you cannot maintain payments, they might as well remove the goods in the WPA.

These antics should be rather cheaper than getting a solicitor to challenge a vexatious levy. :tinysmile_grin_t:

And will make the bailiff look a complete wassock when the items are put up for auction. :beagle:

[gooner1]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

And will make the bailiff look a complete wassock when the items are put up for auction. :beagle:

in all respect... whats the point in that?..you will only incur further fees and will still have the debt!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

in all respect... whats the point in that?..you will only incur further fees and will still have the debt!

The would-be victim of the bailiff should, of course, pay the debt directly to the council.

[cards down]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Hi I've just been reading another thread and realised that when the bailiff gained access he issued 2 WPA's on the same day, charging a 1st visit fee, second visit fee, Levy fee and walking possession fee on both of the WPA's. Is this over charging?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Is the Pope a Catholic?

[Streety]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Yes it is overcharging.

[cards down]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Hello again and thanks for all your help so far, My wife and I have spent most of the day going through paperwork & bank statements regarding our instalments and lump sum payments to the bailiff company and we can not get the figures to add up. Would requesting a SAR from the bailiff company benefit us as they would have all the payment details.

Thanks once again

[cards down]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Hi Streety, could you tell me what is over charged please, I presume the walking possession fee would be applicable to both WPA's, and the first & second fee would only be applicable to one WPA. One Levy fee is £25 higher than the other and i'm not sure if both or one of those fees should be payable. Could you please let me know as this is only my presumption.

Thank you

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Would requesting a SAR from the bailiff company benefit us as they would have all the payment details.

Yes, but you don't need to do that.

The ba:censored:rds at the bailiff company have to provide a breakdown of their charges on request.

[Guest]

Re: Council tax & bailiffs

Not necessarily true, if the bailiff does not provide a breakdown of his costs then the debtor does not have to pay them. A court interpreted this as the bailiff is unable to show it is reasonable costs.

Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008.

Any bailiff claiming costs must show a list of disbursements, detail to WHOM the disbursements were paid to and WHY it needed to be paid. Otherwise ignore them, or reclaim them.