BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

[WACKO]

I've recently been made to pay (roadside) £1973 for 3 moped parking tickets. The police stopped me on my moped for a routine check in Westminster (London) and 3 Bailiffs, who work for Westminster Council were present. The history below:

I received 3 x PCN's from Westinster Council (Penalty Charge Notice) for parking my moped in a moped bay without texting and paying the £1 charge, which had i paid at the time of issue would have cost £60 each.

Bad admin on my part (ignoring the pcn's) meant the debt was handed over to Philips Debt Recover Agents. After several letters from them (again ignored), i noticed the total outstanding was now £1,850! This figure included the three pcn's at full price + some small fees + a £200 charge for EACH NOTICE OF ATTENDANCE!

I have only ever received ONE Notice Of Attendance (that's when i paid attention) and they claim to have made six! In addition, they have given me the dates that the Notice of Attendance's were served, and two PCN's were served on the same date twice.

I have two questions:

1) What proof are Philips obliged to provide me to prove that six Notice Of Attendances were served?

2) If the bailiff did (as Philips claims) visit my property to serve to Notice of Attendance for two seperate PCN's on the same day, should I be charged for two times?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me on this subject.

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Have a read of this. I think it will give you the immediate way forward:

Parking Fine Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum


This gives a link to their charges as per their website:

Schedule of Fees, Charges & Expenses: Philips Collection Services - Revenue Recovery and Enforcement Services

Question 1 will be answered in the first link.

Question 2 - No!

[Guest]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

1) What proof are Philips obliged to provide me to prove that six Notice Of Attendances were served?

They only need to provide proof if you ask them for it. If you dont accept the proof is genuine then you dont need to pay the fee. Its a civil dispute between you and the bailiff. If you can pay the authority direct then bailiffs cannot carry out enforcement for the payment for his fees alone.

2) If the bailiff did (as Philips claims) visit my property to serve to Notice of Attendance for two seperate PCN's on the same day, should I be charged for two times?

Legally they can charge up to three visits. The law decides what those fees are. The Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993 which provides a Letter Fee £11.20 and a visit fee of 28% of the first £100 of the penalty charge and 5.5% of the penalty charge over £100. Only a maximum of three visit can be made and multple visits cannot be charged on the same visit.

The law doesnt say consecutive visits cannot be on the same day.

[WACKO]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Thanks for this. I sent them a letter dated 5th Jan 2011, subject: 'Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request'. I requested a long list all relevant information regarding my account and accompanied a £10 cheque to cover the admin cost and gave them 40 days to comply. Most importantly copies / proof of the six Notices of Attendance they claimed to have issued to me:

My request: Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and charges incurred; this must include the the name of the bailiffs who attended.'

They replied via letter reply dated 22nd February, (following my call into their office on the 21st Feb) - so it took them 48 days. is there any angle here vs the 40 days i told them they had to comply?

The letter contained lots of information re costs and Bailiff Names/Date of Certification / Courts of Certification/Dates of visits etc, however, failed to include any copies of documents that had been issued and left at my property, their reply read:

'We are unable to provide copies of any paperwork left at your property as they are hand written documents and as such cannot be retreived.'

In addition to this, the page stating which bailiff visit dates and time only list four visits in total (they have claimed they made six, have different dates vs to what is quoted on the account statement AND also fails to detail which pcn each visit relates to. ..i have attached copies of these for your reference.

I have two questions therefore:

1) do they have to send me more proof than just a statement?
2) what do you propose is my best plan of action from here?

thanks in advance for your help, much appreciated.

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Have you filed a Statutory Declaration or a Statutory Declation (Out of Time) yet?

[WACKO]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

To Answer Labman: no. i didn't think i had any reason to?

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

With a PCN, if you think the correct process has not been followed, you should complete a Statutory Declaration. There is no time limit on the out of time one, so you can still complete one. Off the top of my head you need either Forms PE3 and PE5 or Forms TE7 and TE9??????

One set relates to the old 1991 act, and the other to the newer act, depending which one they did you under.

A google will tell you the exact forms.

[Mrs James]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Thanks for this. I sent them a letter dated 5th Jan 2011, subject: 'Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request'. I requested a long list all relevant information regarding my account and accompanied a £10 cheque to cover the admin cost and gave them 40 days to comply. Most importantly copies / proof of the six Notices of Attendance they claimed to have issued to me:

My request: Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and charges incurred; this must include the the name of the bailiffs who attended.'

They replied via letter reply dated 22nd February, (following my call into their office on the 21st Feb) - so it took them 48 days. is there any angle here vs the 40 days i told them they had to comply?

The letter contained lots of information re costs and Bailiff Names/Date of Certification / Courts of Certification/Dates of visits etc, however, failed to include any copies of documents that had been issued and left at my property, their reply read:

'We are unable to provide copies of any paperwork left at your property as they are hand written documents and as such cannot be retreived.'

In addition to this, the page stating which bailiff visit dates and time only list four visits in total (they have claimed they made six, have different dates vs to what is quoted on the account statement AND also fails to detail which pcn each visit relates to. ..i have attached copies of these for your reference.

I have two questions therefore:

1) do they have to send me more proof than just a statement?
2) what do you propose is my best plan of action from here?

thanks in advance for your help, much appreciated.

I notice that the visit on 8th December was allegedly made by them at 21-45pm. I don't believe they are allowed to visit at that time unless the court has agreed to it. I could be wrong though, so hopefully those more knowledgeable could confirm?

Most bailiffs have a legal right to come to your home at any time of day or night to try to take your things. However, in practice bailiffs shouldn’t come at the following times unless the court has specifically ordered it:

• before 6am
• after 9pm
• on Sundays
• on bank holidays
• Good Friday
• Christmas Day
• other religious festivals, as appropriate.

Letting bailiffs into your home

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Sadly the time limits are regarded as good practice, not law. The new consultation asks specifically about that very issue. :beagle:

[Mrs James]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Sadly the time limits are regarded as good practice, not law. The new consultation asks specifically about that very issue. :beagle:

Thanks Labman.

[WACKO]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Labman and Mrs James - thank you both for your replies. I am still wondering though, in the eyes of the law/court - what is required as proof of attendance? i.e the attachements on my post yesterday at 18:37 - are these good enough??

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Taken directly from the National Standards for Enforcement Agents (http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...ent-agents.pdf - one up from bottom of page 7)

"Enforcement agents will on each and every occasion when a visit is made to a debtor's property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided."

Given no notices were left, I would say they have not complied with the National Standards so you have a good case for argument. They could have plucked any time out of the air for what they have produced.

[Mrs James]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Labman and Mrs James - thank you both for your replies. I am still wondering though, in the eyes of the law/court - what is required as proof of attendance? i.e the attachements on my post yesterday at 18:37 - are these good enough??

Hi WACKO

Philips tried to charge me for a phantom visit and at the time I was given this information.

If this bailiff did called on you, but you were out, he should have left a letter with the time and date of his visit. He should also have made a note of this letter on the Warrant itself and it must include “any identifying marks of the address such as the specific colour of the door” as proof that he visited.

So maybe you could try asking to see the warrant. I also phoned the court and complained and the charge mysteriously disappeared.

[labman]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

Wacko - I need to ask someone else to look at this, but I think the bailiffs have messed up here.

There is a fee structure to be followed for Penalty Charge Notices, and a separate set of fees for Magistrates' Court fines.

It appears to me they are charging the set of fees for Magistrates' Courts rather than PCN's. Where it gets confusing is that PCN's are dealt with by a Magistrates' Court. I am unsure whether there is anything which allows them to transfer from the fee scale for PCN's to the fee scale for unpaid Magistrate Court fines.

I'll send a pm now to someone who should hopefully be able to help. It's unlikely they will be online before tonight though.

pm sent!

[CleverClogs]

Re: BAILIFF: Notice Of Attendance Served

I've recently been made to pay (roadside) £1973 for 3 moped parking tickets. The police stopped me on my moped for a routine check in Westminster (London) and 3 Bailiffs, who work for Westminster Council were present.

How were you "made to pay"?

What - if anything - did the police do?