Bailiff Regulation

[shell]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Just a question that's been bothering me, how come when someone contacts the police to report a bailiff they are told it's a civil matter, but when the bailiffs need to access someones property the police will assist them?

[charitynjw]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Just a question that's been bothering me, how come when someone contacts the police to report a bailiff they are told it's a civil matter, but when the bailiffs need to access someones property the police will assist them?

I reckon Happy Contrails could give us a clue on this!

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=32411

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Monzter. You have hit the nail right on the head. You have demonstrated how flawed council tax really is for low-income households.

If it were a local income tax, then it eliminates the need to operate expensively-to-administrate a council tax benefits system. You wouldnt pay it if you took time off for illness of short term sick, plus it doesnt leave you with a debt to service when you are ready to return to work.

Other countries have a local income tax, and this would finance town hall budgets, without the cost of administering a benefits and rebates systerm - and not to mention, operating a complex complaints and resultions system.

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Just a question that's been bothering me, how come when someone contacts the police to report a bailiff they are told it's a civil matter, but when the bailiffs need to access someones property the police will assist them?

I dont want to be seen taking this thread off topic.

I have researched this with solicitors, police officers and the House of Lords. The straight answer is police officers are trained to regard bailiff crime to be a civil matter. The advice originates from ACPO - the Association of Chief Police Officers.

The reason for police attendance on bailiffs visits is to protect the bailiff from violence from the debtor, the Police National Computer holds data on known violent offenders and decide whether a police presence is needed. The bailiff company pays for it - even if the debtor is not at home.

Breaking and entering is very rare, in fact, while the legislation does provide for it, I have never known a magistrate to make an order for bailiffs to break into a defendants property. They never have any money anyway, the property belongs to the council - so its the taxpayer that picks up the bill.

Its far easier to commit the defendant, and that does not put anyone in danger.

[labman]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Who will regulate bailiffs? The ACEA and Credit Services Association? They are private companies who exist for profit, and, whose rent is paid by bailiff companies.

Anyone can get a bailiffs certificate and work for one of the bailiff companies. It's a deadbeats job with no prospects. You are dealing with people who don't want you, chasing unenforceable debts, and paid largely on results.The only time I see a bailiff drive a nice car is after they have seized it, and driving it for their own private use.

I think you meant Enforcement Services Association who are now CIVEA following the amalgamation.

To be certificated there is the small matter of having £10000 free for a bond which can (but rarely is unfortunately) be lost.

I never see bailiffs driving nice cars as I don't know which cars are driven by bailiffs and which by ordinary people - they tend not to advertise the fact.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Just a question that's been bothering me, how come when someone contacts the police to report a bailiff they are told it's a civil matter, but when the bailiffs need to access someones property the police will assist them?

I was present when someone called the police after a phone call from Welcome where the Welcome guy ended the call with "I'll come round your house then" and said it twice. We were straight onto the police who naturally said it's a civil matter but we said yes, but it's also threatening behaviour and we want it recorded. Police were great and did that, giving us an incident number so that if he came round they could act immediately as it had already been reported. It didn't take too much time for the police to record it, they even would have made a visit if we'd insisted but we said we only wanted the matter recorded as an incident as it gives protection if anyone does come to the house.

Threatening behaviour is threatening behaviour and that's a criminal offence. Nobody's asking the police to sort out the debt dispute but we can't have people going around breaking the law under the disguise of civil dispute, the more they are reported the better and when it comes to taking licences away, I would hope these incident numbers will be taken into account.

[shell]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

I was present when someone called the police after a phone call from Welcome where the Welcome guy ended the call with "I'll come round your house then" and said it twice. We were straight onto the police who naturally said it's a civil matter but we said yes, but it's also threatening behaviour and we want it recorded. Police were great and did that, giving us an incident number so that if he came round they could act immediately as it had already been reported. It didn't take too much time for the police to record it, they even would have made a visit if we'd insisted but we said we only wanted the matter recorded as an incident as it gives protection if anyone does come to the house.

Threatening behaviour is threatening behaviour and that's a criminal offence. Nobody's asking the police to sort out the debt dispute but we can't have people going around breaking the law under the disguise of civil dispute, the more they are reported the better and when it comes to taking licences away, I would hope these incident numbers will be taken into account.

This seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Thread after thread posters are saying they called the police only to be told it's a civil matter. I just find it strange that if a bailiff thinks there might be the slightest resistance, the police attend, yet a bailiff can threaten, be menacing and just downright evil, suddenly its a civil matter. It's been mentioned that when bailiffs bring the police in, the police are paid, does that mean they are working as sub contractors?

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

From experience it never works having police present.

The defendant nuts the bailiff and defendant is arrested. Bailiff goes home with nothing, defendant is aquitted because he pleads self defence.

[labman]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Hear Hear! So just how effective are the police a stopping a breach of the peace which is all they're there to do?

[Shadowcat]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

I just wondered if it works more as a black mark regarding their licence if incident numbers were sought, these could be passed in writing to CIVEA, Trading Standards, etc. Of course, local authorities will possibly tell the police that they need this money called in because it'll impact on everyone's jobs but either all people should abide by the law or none, they can't have it both ways. I think the LAs need to be reminded this is not the wild west.

The Data Protection Act states: A decision to share personal data with another organisation does not take away your duty to treat individuals fairly. So before sharing personal data, you should consider carefully what the recipient will do with it, and what the effect on individuals is likely to be. It is good practice to obtain an assurance about this, for example in the form of a written contract.

Although the local authority may be exempt from some of the DPA provisions, as far as I can see the above still applies to them. Maybe they'd better start putting a little more work into who they use, the fast-track court system may be going to their head and taken as a green light to do whatever they choose.

[labman]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

I agree, but I think you'll find council's have contracts with their appointed bailiffs already. The councils are just as guilty as the bailiffs in condoning their unfair practices. It is only usually when forced they will take things back and start behaving lawfully again.

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Complaints should be made to the Local Government Ombudsman.

I have found this an effective remedy, but compensation awards are minimal, along the lines of £100.

The form 4 complaint is also very effective, but compensation is limited to actual losses incurred by the complainant.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Councils have a lot to answer for but the DPA sentence should be used in complaint letters, as well as an attempt at getting an incident number to quote. It won't be a quick process but may, in time, have the effect of clearing up the mess and may mean councils will start going about things properly. Complaint letters should also be copied to local MP's, if people are acting on behalf of the elderly they can cc. Age Concern too.
Certain DCA's have intimidated people for far too long.


Criminal threatening (or threatening behavior) is the crime of intentionally or knowingly putting another person in fear of imminent bodily injury. "Threat of harm generally involves a perception of injury...physical or mental damage...act or instance of injury, or a material and detriment or loss to a person."

I was always told you can't argue with the law and there it is (sourced Wikipedia).

[Monzter]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Thanks for the reply Happy Contrails. That does seem much fairer and would make sure people like me don't fall into debt from the inconvenience of being ill!! Don't suppose it'd ever happen though.

As for what's been discussed about the police maybe the better way to go would be to inform the police that the bailiff is behaving in a threatening manner, harassment etc, and point out that the DEBT is a civil matter certainly however the actions of the bailiff are not, they are harassment/threatening etc and that IS a police matter. I spoke to a police officer in an informal manner after being threatened and he said although the debt was civil and they could not sort that out, his behaviour was not. I realise that this guy was probably one in a million though. I made it clear that I wasn't seeking for the police to sort the debt out, or call the bailiffs off, rather ensure in their capacity as well, police, that I was not threatened and intimidated.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Bailiff Regulation

Yes Monz, the two things are separate issues as you rightly say. Protecting the vulnerable has to be addressed now that there are fewer and fewer regulators in place.

Hope you enjoyed your walk yesterday btw.