Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

[steffnexis]

hi people.

im really hoping for some help here... i am a single parent and i was stuck with a £6000 pound council tax bill as my husband (who i kicked out last year) didnt pay the council tax for years and hid the letters from me.

the debt is in both of our names and i have been told by bristow and sutor that i have to pay the lot if my husband who wont speak to me now refuses to pay anything and wont tell me where he now lives.

i have managed to pay i believe almost £4000 pounds off over the last year however from visits etc they still seem to think that i woe them over £4000 pounds... they want me to pay £350 a month which i cant actually afford as i have given them all of my savings and am now struggling to pay more council tax because of the amount of money they want off me.

i have rented the house out to help and the lodger let the bailifs in to levy on the television which is the only item i still own in the house. They have threatened to stop me selling the house and have been very abusive to me on the telephone.

what do i need to get from them to get proof of what i owe and what can i offer to pay that they have to accept or do i have to keep struggling to pay my bills so that i can pay them??!! i am at a loss now and it is becomeing unbearable as i cant see a way out of the hole as if i am late on a payment they seem to add loads more for me to pay!

please can i get any information on anything to help

thank you
steff

[postggj]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

good evening and welcome

first thing you need to do is contact the council and find out the total amount owing

i say this as baliffs do illegal fees to bolster there earnings

then you need to get the baliff company to do a full statement of account including any of there fees

then get back and update your thread

[postggj]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

Last year, approx 3.3 million Liability Orders were issued against home owners who have fallen behind with payment for their council tax. From the many enquiries that I receive and also see on the forums, so many of these debtors are victims of the recession where they have suffered redundancies etc and not forgetting, the appalling situation that we tend not to see on this part of the forum whereby an individual has been subject to reassessment of their Incapacity Benefit or Disability Living Allowance by agencies who are PAID A FEE for each case where they can CLAIM that a person is fit for work!! In such cases, benefits STOP OVERNIGHT and the appeals process takes MONTHS.

In 2006 a television programme was aired called the Whistleblower. This featured various bailiffs one of whom was nicknamed "ladders". This is because, he used to carry a ladder in his car which he would use to climb into an open upstairs window!! There were other examples at the time and it was well known within the bailiff industry that the relevant bailiff companies featured quickly gor rid of the bailiffs who were seen on film. If they hoped that this would cure the problem...they are wrong.

The "Whistleblower" programme had a simply devastating effect on this already unpopular industry and since that time, the government have been promising that they would introduce change and that a Consultation document would be forthcoming. This was due to be released a few years ago but recently was adjourned again. Obviously a change of government had an impact on this subject.

The official statement from the Ministry of Justice for the delay on 25th July 2011 stated the following:


"The majority of bailiffs are responsible, but too many are not and this cannot be allowed to continue. We will publish our consultation as soon as we have exhausted our exploration of all the issues in order to ensure the proposale we develop are thorough and will provide the clarity and protection that both debtors and creditors needs, as well as the bailiff industry itself"

All bailiffs know that in working as a bailiff that they must abide by Paragrph 10 of the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 which provides the following:

"No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules"

Whether the bailiff is enforcing upaid council tax or a parking ticket, he knows when taking on the job that the fees that can be charged are set by Statute Law under an Act of Parliament. I would agree that the fee for "attending to levy" (where no levy is made) of £24.50 is not a lot of money for the job in hand BUT this is what the fee scale provides and the bailiff has a choice. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE JOB. It is that SIMPLE.

Take for instance the scenario that any one us us took a position of employment working at (for instance) Mc Donald's or another fast food restaurant earning £6 per hour. This would not be enough to survive on. Therefore, can you imagine what would happen if we charged another £1 to every customer we served. That would be theft and if disovered, we would be arrested and convicted.

Since the recession, it is now almost routine for bailiffs to charge an "enforcement fee" to each account when visiting a property for unpaid council tax. Typically this is for approx £150-£200 PER CUSTOMER!!! The statutory regulations do NOT provide for such a fee. Is this "theft".... I would say so.

Once this programme is aired I would not be at all surprised to see that bailiff companies or their governing bodies attempt to say that the fault with bailiffs overcharging or acting aggressively lay entirely with the Ministry of Justice for failing to implement the Tribunals Court and Enforcement Act 2007 and that the current fee scale is neither clear, simple or easy to understand !! In other words......lay the blame on someone else.
THANKS TO TOMTUBBY FOR THE ABOVE

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

Just to expand on that offered above ring the Council and ask:
1 - how many Liability Orders there are
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - what period each one covers
4 - the amount owing on each
5 - the amount still outstanding on each
6 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

Whilst speaking to the Council you should also ask if they can see your account with B&S, if so ask additionally:
a - the fees that have been added to each
b - the dates these fees were added
c - the dates and amounts of any payments made
d - if any levies have been charged for what goods have they seized.

Next you write to the Bailiffs and ask for a breakdown of your account for each reference number you have. You should send this initially by email with a copy to follow in the post. Do you know if the attending Bailiff is suitably Certificated?

How long have you been making payments for?

[steffnexis]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

hi keith

thanks for your reply. i have just written a letter to bristow and sutor requesting a full breakdown and i will send one to the council as well requesting how much i owe.

i have told bristow and sutor not to send bailifs to the address as well as i no longer live there but i suppose they may ignore that as i still own the house!! id rather not to be honest but cant sell!!

thank though
steff
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every time the bailifs have tuirned up it has been someone different!! I havent got a clue if they are certified as i had no clue what was going on...

I have paid 3 x lump sums of £3000 pounds this year and i have paid one times £500 pounds and i think three monthly payments of £250 but i asked for an extention last month as i had issues and they sent the bailifs round again and that was whween they were allowed in and then they phoned me to tell me the tv was mine and i said fine then take it its not worth anything as its old and they didnt.

I told them i couldnt give them my details over the phone and i then emailed bristow and sutor, paid another £250 and then they said i had to pay another £500 and now my monthly payments are £350 a month.... for i think 15 months or something rediculous so its shot back up again

steff

[Caspar]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

You should be fine just phoning the council and requesting the information that Ploddertom has outlined above.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

All bailiffs know that in working as a bailiff that they must abide by Paragrph 10 of the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 which provides the following:

"No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules"

Whether the bailiff is enforcing upaid council tax or a parking ticket, he knows when taking on the job that the fees that can be charged are set by Statute Law under an Act of Parliament. I would agree that the fee for "attending to levy" (where no levy is made) of £24.50 is not a lot of money for the job in hand BUT this is what the fee scale provides and the bailiff has a choice. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE JOB. It is that SIMPLE.

Take for instance the scenario that any one us us took a position of employment working at (for instance) Mc Donald's or another fast food restaurant earning £6 per hour. This would not be enough to survive on. Therefore, can you imagine what would happen if we charged another £1 to every customer we served. That would be theft and if disovered, we would be arrested and convicted.

Since the recession, it is now almost routine for bailiffs to charge an "enforcement fee" to each account when visiting a property for unpaid council tax. Typically this is for approx £150-£200 PER CUSTOMER!!! The statutory regulations do NOT provide for such a fee. Is this "theft".... I would say so.

No, it is not theft.

It could be fraud by misrepresentation, the misrepresentation being that the bugger is lawfully entitled to charge and/or to receive such excessive fees.

Does one really need to point out that bailiffs may not hold a certificate if they have an unspent conviction for fraud?

Once this programme is aired I would not be at all surprised to see that bailiff companies or their governing bodies attempt to say that the fault with bailiffs overcharging or acting aggressively lay entirely with the Ministry of Justice for failing to implement the Tribunals Court and Enforcement Act 2007 and that the current fee scale is neither clear, simple or easy to understand !! In other words......lay the blame on someone else.

As the unfortunate provisions for enforcement of judgement debts in the addle-pated Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 rather depend on the absurd premise that no bailiff would break the law, either by overcharging or bullying debtors, those provisions have yet to be added to law by a Commencement Order and I sincerely hope they never will.

As for what any bailiffs might say on the matter, it is surely common knowledge that bailiffs tell lies.

[WendyB]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

Have a read of Amy's excellent guide Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

then have a read of this Wends v Bristow Sutor - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum and this Shell v B S and two Councils - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum Bristow & Sutor are pretty much the same as all bailiffs but usually cave in more easily.

Request a breakdown of what fees have been charged on each liability order, B & S usually send these out on request for each account, without the need for a SAR and £10. Ask the council for a list of what is outstanding against each LO.. When you speak to the council you need to speak to the CT recovery dept, not just the muppets in customer services.

As bailiffs invariably take their fees before handing over the balance to the council, you will find that, when you have challenged all their nefarious fees and insisted that they be credited to your account, you will more than likely be in credit with the C Tax, or at least a lot closer to paying it off than you are at the moment.

[ciruss]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

I currently work as a Bailiff at B&S ... and all fees incurred are of a high nature and vary dependent on council.

baliffs will not remove goods !! they will start removing but will never take away as the cost is not enough to cover removal
Levy on a car is normal procedure so dont be scared if your car is on finance as it will not be removed as a HPI will be done.

all fees are taken from payment first as bailiffs are on a bonus payment structure in forms of 3 tier payment

a bailiff is told to take @£10,000 per month to average out at £500 per day minimum this will guarentee a bailiff gets into BOTTOM bonus which will earn the bailiff £1800 in his monthly wage packet

ALWAYS RING THE COUNCIL IF A BAILIFF ATTENDS - 99.9% of times the council will call the bailiff off

THE BEST BIT OF ADVICE I CAN GIVE IS .... IF YOU OWE DEBTS AND CANT AFFORD TO PAY THEM ... list all your goods down and state they are owned by somebody else leaving just clothing as only thing you own
then contact council directly they will always help you


Regards The FRIENDLY Bailiff

[Caspar]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

Interesting information thank you! The only bit I would question from my experiences is your comment that if a bailiff attends, ring the council as 99.9% of the time they will call the bailiff off. My experiences ditate almost the opposite, that 99.9% of the time, the council will back the bailiffs to the hilt.

Not a criticism of your post, purely an observation.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

I currently work as a Bailiff at B&S

And may the Lord God have mercy on your soul.

Levy on a car is normal procedure so dont be scared if your car is on finance as it will not be removed as a HPI will be done.

I believe you mean that an HPI check has to be done. Even so, it has hardly been unknown for a bailiff to levy upon and even to remove a motor vehicle that does not belong to the debtor. This may happen if the vehicle is leased to the debtor under the Motability scheme, where the registered keeper of the vehicle may be the debtor but the vehicle still belongs to Motabillity Finance Ltd; on other occasions, a bailiff has levied on a neighbour's vehicle either because he went to the wrong address or because he simply did not or could not check.

all fees are taken from payment first as bailiffs are on a bonus payment structure in forms of 3 tier payment

a bailiff is told to take @£10,000 per month to average out at £500 per day minimum this will guarentee a bailiff gets into BOTTOM bonus which will earn the bailiff £1800 in his monthly wage packet

That would certainly seem to provide a strong motive for the disingenuity or dishonesty for which bailiffs have become notorious.

How much pay would a bailiff get per month if he/she did not even earn the minimum bonus?

[ciruss]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

How much pay would a bailiff get per month if he/she did not even earn the minimum bonus?

Read more at: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum
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they would earn basic salary @ £900 thus losing minium bonus of @ £1800
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My experiences ditate almost the opposite, that 99.9% of the time, the council will back the bailiffs to the hilt.

if you point out that you require time to pay and that bailiffs costs are leaving you in a financial disposition they will be called off

Read more at: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

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I believe you mean that an HPI check has to be done. Even so, it has hardly been unknown for a bailiff to levy upon and even to remove a motor vehicle that does not belong to the debtor. This may happen if the vehicle is leased to the debtor under the Motability scheme, where the registered keeper of the vehicle may be the debtor but the vehicle still belongs to Motabillity Finance Ltd; on other occasions, a bailiff has levied on a neighbour's vehicle either because he went to the wrong address or because he simply did not or could not check.

Read more at: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

A levy bailiff will levy on any car located on the debtors prop or within a close proximity, a HPI will not be done until a van bailiff is asked to recover debt.

[ciruss]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

**** DUE TO A RECENT LEGAL CASE TAKEN AGAINST B&S --- THEY NO LONGER REMOVE VEHICLES !!! This is a condition that has been passed to all us bailiffs -- We will however make the threat of removal :P ****

[TUTTSI]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

Cirrus what exactly was this recent case can you enlighten us a bit more please ?

**** DUE TO A RECENT LEGAL CASE TAKEN AGAINST B&S --- THEY NO LONGER REMOVE VEHICLES !!! This is a condition that has been passed to all us bailiffs -- We will however make the threat of removal :P ****

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow and sutor payments and bailifs

A levy bailiff will levy on any car located on the debtors prop or within a close proximity, a HPI will not be done until a van bailiff is asked to recover debt.

What is the difference between the 2 types of Bailiff?