Very aggresive bailiff

[miss-nirvana]

OMG!! Bailiffs clamped my dads car last Thursday, i tried calling them on the that day to inform them that the car was not mine, and also to try and make a payment plan. I could not reach him so i called the head office, and they could not trace him either. Since then i have put a note on car explaining that i am not the owner.

The bailiff returned today (a week later) banging on my door and windows. I told him i would speak to him from behind the door, he got very irate at this and began swearing etc. I told him i was not going to let him in, and that i would go outside to speak to him.

As soon as i went outside with my partner the bailiff became very aggresive and was telling me that he was taking the car and crushing it, i was trying to tell him that we tried calling him, he got more irate and started calling us liars, and was shouting and swearing. At this point i tiod him i was not going to deal with him and went to go back inside. I closed the porch door to which he tapped on the glass and told me i better watch out and watch my windows!!

I called his head office and told them, they said i had to put the complaint in writing, I explained to them that i didn't want to deal with this bully and was willing to speak to them about a payment. They told me i can not do this and i have to make arrangements with the bailiff direct. I am certainly NOT prepared to do that. I have called the council and the police, both told me to speak to the head office, which i've already done.

Don't know what to do next

[leclerc]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

What was the reason the bailiff was coming round?

[miss-nirvana]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

originally for a parking ticket

[leclerc]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Parking Fine Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Amy has produced this guide so that is your starting point.

[Celestine]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Have you got a name for this bailiff?

Has he indicated when he is going to return?

Any chance of you filming his conduct?

[miss-nirvana]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

He has not indicated when he will return, and yes i have the Name and the company. I did not record it, gutted about that, although there were some workmen watching it all, could perhaps get them to witness.

[mr.ton]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

If this goon is not from the court (sounds like he isnt) then i would contact the police again asap personally and refuse to be fobbed off by them - if he turns up again dial 999

[Caspar]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

The police would only attend in order to stop a breach of the peace, and are better being kept away as they have a habit of siding with the bailiffs and telling you to let them into your house. DON'T!!!!!! And well done for standing up to him.

I'd try and get the workmen to give you their details and ask if they would act as witnesses.

I assume this is a normal PCN?

If so, write to the local authority filing a Statutory Declaration Form and also enclosing a letter to them informing them of the bailiff's conduct, stating you have witnesses and that you are aware of both the National Enforcement Standards for Enforcement Agents and of their vicarious liability for the conduct of their appointed agents.

Hopefully the two together will produce some sort of acceptable resolution for you.

[miss-nirvana]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Well this is all really getting frustrating!! GGRRR!!!

After yesterdays showdown, the bailiff has not returned and nor has he taken the car, it is still sitting there clamped.

I checked the register of certificated bailiffs and there are two bailiffs (lets call him Mr Smith as i dont know if i can give out details) on there with that surname, he did not give any forename, i also checked this with ministry of Justice, and they also confirmed that Neither of them work for the company he is working for. I called the courts that issued the certificates, i am still waiting to hear from one, but the other one confirmed that the Smith they have issued a certificate to does not work for that company. I understand that if the bailiff changes employer, he has to surrender his certificate and have it ammended. Therefore, it seems Mr Smith is working without a being certificated, so he can not legally levy anything and my dads car has been illegally clamped.

I have called the creditors (Medway council) who are employing the bailiffs to inform them of my findings, to which they have said it is nothing to do with them. I informed them that they are employing a bailiff who is working illegally issuing warrants unlawfully, and they still claim it is nothing to do with them as they employ the "company".

So it seems the original creditors want nothing to do with it, the car is still sat there clamped by a bailiff who is acting illegally, and apart from the visit yesterday i have had no contact with since he put the clamp on last Thursday!! The company are telling me i can not deal with them direct as the case is assigned to Mr Smith (even tho i have tried to pay them twice!)...... So does this mean i can remove the clamp without breaking any laws????

Hope this all makes sense.

[Caspar]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Makes total sense. Absolutely no reason why you can't give names as the bailiffs' register is public information.

Get hold of the e-mail address for your council and send him this:

Dear Sir,

Your Ref:

I am writing to complain about your employees who are laying you open to serious litigation.

On Thursday 7th July 2011 my father's car was clamped for my debt. Despite numerous phone calls to the bailiffs and the council I have been told by the council they can do nothing, and by the bailiff company that they can do nothing as I have to deal with the bailiff directly assigned to the case.

I have now discovered the bailiff who clamped the car is uncertificated and is thus working illegally. I am therefore not prepared to discuss anything with him.

I am sure I do not need to remind you of your vicarious liability for your appointed enforcement officers. They, and your employees have breached several important pieces of legislation during this process. As already mentioned the issue of vicarious liability makes you, as the CEO of the council, responsible for their actions or inactions.

I would therefore request that the bailiff company be removed from any further enforcement of this account and the account taken back under council control. Furthermore I request that the clamp on my father's car be removed immediately and that a suitable offer of compensation be made to him for the distress and lack of mobility he has suffered as a result of this. Finally I would request that suitable action is taken by the council to ensure the licence of the bailiff in question is withdrawn.

If the above is not actioned immediately I will not hesitate to take legislative action as I see fit.

I look forward to your written confirmation that all the above has been done.

Yours faithfully,

[leclerc]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Would it be a criminal offence to make demands for payment when clearly he is not certified and in that case authorised by the company?

[Caspar]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

The following criminal offences spring to mind:

fraud, extortion (demanding money with menace), breach of DPA, breach of Human Rights.

Copied from OTR:
LORD LUCAS( CONSERVATIVE) ASKED HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT

Whether a person who represents himself to be a CERTIFICATED BAILIFF, but is not, and by doing so obtains a payment or goods from a debtor, commits a fraud within the meaning of SECTIONS 1 to 5 of the FRAUD ACT 2006; and, if so, which sections of the Act apply; and whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter.


BARONESS SCOTLAND OF ASTAL (MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE) replied:

THE FRAUD ACT 2006 created a new general offence of fraud. This can be committed by three means, one of which is by false representation. Fraud by false representation is set out in Section 2 of the Act. Where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss, that person will be committing an offence. A person who dishonestly represents to be a CERTIFICATED BAILIFF , but is not, is likely to be committing an offence under this section.

It will be necessary to show that the person was acting dishonestly in making the false representation, as well as that they intended to make a gain or cause a loss. It is immaterial whether they actually obtained a payment or goods from a debtor.

The decision on whether to investigate a crime rests solely with the police, who will take into account available resources, national and local policing priorities, the likely eventual outcome and the competing priorities of fraud and other criminal cases already under investigation. Such operational issues are a matter for the chief officer of the force concerned.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

I have now discovered the bailiff who clamped the car is uncertificated and is thus working illegally. I am therefore not prepared to discuss anything with him.
:
:
... Finally I would request that suitable action is taken by the council to ensure the licence of the bailiff in question is withdrawn.

If the oaf does not have a certificate, it might be somewhat difficult to get his certificate revoked.

If the above is not actioned immediately I will not hesitate to take legislative action as I see fit.

Really?

Mightn't one need to be elected to Parliament before one could introduce legislation?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Would it be a criminal offence to make demands for payment when clearly he is not certified and in that case authorised by the company?

Whether or not he has a certificate or was once merely certified (as a raving lunatic) it is nevertheless a criminal offence to reinforce demands with violence or threats thereof.

[WendyB]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Did you know about the PCN? Did you have any prior knowledge of it before the bailiff clamped your dad's car? If you did, then a Statutory Declaration is not relevant. A Statutory Declaration is saying that a part of the process which should have been followed, wasn't. So if the process has been followed/taken place correctly, then you should not be filing a Stat Dec.

Send a SAR to the bailiff company, as mentioned in the parking guide (link given in Leclerc's post previously).

Write/email the bailiff company demanding that they release the car otherwise your father will be reporting them to the police for unlawful clamping (or whatever the legal term is). Also tell them that you will be filing a Form 4 complaint against said bailiff. Whilst you are at it list all the things that the bailiff has done incorrectly/illegally/not complied with, just have a rummage around in the bailiff guide and the parking guide, there's bound to be loads of stuff in there that he's fallen foul of.They always do, some more than others.

Copy the letter to the council and point out their vicarious liability for the actions of the bailiffs who are employed by them.

Are you in a position to pay the original PCN?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Very aggresive bailiff

Given that the police are inherently indolent and will probably do bugger all about the improper or unlawful clamping of that motor-car, would it be lawful for the OP's father to remove the clamp himself?