Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

[Swingletree]

Hi, Guys I need some help from this brilliant website.


I’ve just received a SAR from some bailiffs (who have been collecting council tax arrears since 2007) and I was expecting various papers that would give support to bailiffs arriving at an address and giving out the ‘correct’ documentation and thus providing some sort of legal basis for their fees.


However what I have been sent is either very wrong or papers are missing completely. For example, no walking possession documents (signed or otherwise), incorrect location details (colour of front door, type of property) no justification for the individual charges/fees etc.


Can someone with much more knowledge than me either point me to the specific data protection legislation or give me a pointer which seems to suggest to me that the missing data was never actually in place.



Is it the duty on the bailiffs to prove that walking possessions etc were valid before charges/fees are raised on them?

[Amy]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

The Data Protection Act 1988, Section 7 gives an individual the right to access any and all information held on them.

The National Standards for Enforcement Agents, under the heading "Information and Confidentiality" says the following:-

"Enforcement agents will on each and every occasion when a visit is made to a debtor's property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided."

Did you specifically say in your SAR that you wanted copies of the walking possession orders?

With regard to your final paragraph; the answer is yes it is the duty of the bailiff, but then again they don't care whether they are valid or not, they just want the money.

[Swingletree]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

I specifically asked for the walking possession documents as the one that I already obtained had listed the only household cooking appliances and the only sitting arrangements that were available to the lone parent of her two children.

I also had to wait 41 days for this SAR arrive. Every turn there seems to be an issue with this particular case.

Thanks for your assitance

[Amy]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

If the requested information is missing or incomplete, then the SAR remains outstanding.

You should send, if you have not already done so, a reminder of their obligations and what further action you will take if the information is not forthcoming.

[Swingletree]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

A couple of questions;

(1) How long should Bailiffs keep 'old' records relating to visits, walking possession documents, in order that they can later justify their fees?

(2) Is there any reasons why the DCA can withhold names & certification number of their bailiffs. I need to check whether certified bailiffs did call on someone to extract council tax

I have used a subject access request to try to gain these details but being refused information that I had previously asked for.

Any help will be very much appreciated.

[Amy]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

The Data Protection Act says that information should be kept for no longer than is necessary. The Act does not specify what a ‘necessary’ period should be for particular information. Each case would be considered on its own merits.

Bailiffs should always produce relevant identification on request and the only reason not to show you his certificate is probably because he doesn't have one or didn't have one at the time. If you've asked for it, they are obliged to show you a copy of it.

One small point though, a bailiff is 'certificated' he is not 'certified.'

If you've sent a letter reminding them of their obligations under the DPA and they are still refusing you, why haven't you sued yet?

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

The Data Protection Act says that information should be kept for no longer than is necessary. The Act does not specify what a ‘necessary’ period should be for particular information. Each case would be considered on its own merits.

Bailiffs should always produce relevant identification on request and the only reason not to show you his certificate is probably because he doesn't have one or didn't have one at the time. If you've asked for it, they are obliged to show you a copy of it.

One small point though, a bailiff is 'certificated' he is not 'certified.'

If you've sent a letter reminding them of their obligations under the DPA and they are still refusing you, why haven't you sued yet?

You sure, Amy?..... pmsl

[Amy]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

About what?

[charitynjw]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

That bailiffs aren't certified! (joke)

[Swingletree]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

The Data Protection Act says that information should be kept for no longer than is necessary. The Act does not specify what a ‘necessary’ period should be for particular information. Each case would be considered on its own merits.

Bailiffs should always produce relevant identification on request and the only reason not to show you his certificate is probably because he doesn't have one or didn't have one at the time. If you've asked for it, they are obliged to show you a copy of it.

One small point though, a bailiff is 'certificated' he is not 'certified.'

If you've sent a letter reminding them of their obligations under the DPA and they are still refusing you, why haven't you sued yet?

I was hoping that I would be able to get the Bailiffs full name & his certification number from a SAR. The CT Debt was paid off some time ago but a great number of things have come to light that need investigating & complaining about. I have a feeling that the person knocking at the door was not a bailiff (with a certificate!!) but I need to be sure before I start making more noises.

As for 'suing' them I am not sure what I can sue them for. I was hoping that I would be able to get a copy of the WP so that I could actually see what was levied. Now I have found, from Amy's comments, that they only need to keep records for 'as long as it is necessary' then I am sure that will be the 'cop-out' that they will use.

And again as for not suing them I gave them 7 days notice and only three days has gone. There is probably enough on the Bailiffs Records which I have manged to obtain to be able (again) make complaint to the Council etc.

[Amy]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

If at the time the bailiff was not certificated, then firstly he would be unable to produce a copy of his certificate and secondly he would be unlikely to admit that he did not have one unless you force his hand and you can do this by suing them.

You must make this a claim for a small sum of money (£35 odd) or it will be treated as a Part 8 claim and these are expensive.

[Swingletree]

Re: Missing/Incorrect SAR Detail

If at the time the bailiff was not certificated, then firstly he would be unable to produce a copy of his certificate and secondly he would be unlikely to admit that he did not have one unless you force his hand and you can do this by suing them.

You must make this a claim for a small sum of money (£35 odd) or it will be treated as a Part 8 claim and these are expensive.

It's going to be very complicated as there were two liabilities orders in place but four debts 'piggy-backed' onto the two orders. There were numerous bailiffs involved. I am doing this research for a family member and they do not recall any 'official' paperwork being shown to them.

According to the SAR all I have is e.g. 'J Bloggs' was the bailiff and unless I can get their full name, the court were they obtained the certificate I cannot see a way of proving it actually was a bailiff at the door.