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I am posting with regards to a council tax bill dated 19/1/11 received by myself on 26/1/11 for outstanding council tax for the period ending 31/8/07 and stated at £183.91. This outstanding relates to the property in Southwark: xxxxxxxx which myself (YM) and 2 others (UR & WM) rented. During our occupancy of this address, we were students and therefore exempt from council tax charges. We provided the council with the necessary exemption certificates.
However, myself and UR graduated in the middle of 2007 and so our student exemption certificates only covered us for part of the year. We officially moved out of the property on 31/8/07.
Unfortunately, myself and UR overlooked the fact that we were no longer exempt from council tax for xxxxxxxx in the period from our graduation to the end of our tenancy and failed to notify Southwark council and pay the necessary bill. I apologise for that, it was an oversight on our parts in the rush and euphoria that followed graduation, moving home and starting new jobs. WM however was still a student during this entire period and hence was exempt from any council tax charges relating to this period.
I therefore do not dispute the council tax bill for £183.91 from Southwark council for 2007 for UR and myself and we are happy to pay it. I'm sure you will agree that as WM was still a student and therefore still exempt from council tax charges, this bill does not relate to her.
However, after receiving your correspondence on 26/1/11 asking for payment, I promptly contacted Southwark council to pay the outstanding balance. I was directed to a bailiff company, Newlyns, to complete payment. On contacting Newlyn's, I was advised that I would be expected to pay an additional £256.48 to cover their charges, bringing the total to £440.39. On further questioning, these 'charges' were to cover 2 bailiff's visits to an address: Flat xx, xxxxx RD
, London on 20/11/10, 27/11/10; a van visit to the same address on 8/12/10 and a tracing fee. This is all after this outstanding council tax bill was sent to court on 23/1/08 at Southwark Court. The address of flat xx xxxx Rd according to Newlyns relates to WM.
Please imagine my surprise to find that court action had been taken for this outstanding bill in 2008 and the first I or UR have heard of it is now 2011! On top of this, we are being charged £256.48 for action taken which neither myself or UR, the 'liable parties', knew anything about.
It seems that Southwark Council and Newlyn's have been barking up the wrong tree. They have both been demanding payment for the outstanding council tax bill from the 1 tenant that WAS COMPLETELY EXEMPT from council tax charges. Court action was taken without attempting to contact either myself or UR. It is not acceptable to say simply that as 1 of the former tenants was contacted, that is sufficient. In this case almost 3 and a half years have passed, you cannot assume all tenants are still in contact with one another.
I find it completely unacceptable that myself and UR should have to pay the Newlyns charges because Southwark Council provided them with incorrect information as to who payment was due from. Newlyns should never have been given WM details as she was exempt from council tax charges an 2007. If either myself or UR had been aware of the outstanding council tax bill we would have paid at the earliest opportunity and there would never have been any need for a court order or Newlyns to get involved and thus incur any extra costs.
I have contacted Newlyn's and disputed the payment of their costs for the above mentioned reasons. They advised me they work on Southwark council's instruction and the names and addresses provided by the council.
I re-contacted Southwark council on 28/1/11 explaining the situation. I was advised to complain to this email address so a council tax advisor could review the case and recall the bill from Newlyn's.
I believe Southwark Council is to blame for this mix up as you had all the information available to you with regards to which of the occupants were and were not exempt from Council tax charges during 2007, however you took action against the exempt individual whilst leaving the liable parties in the dark. I would like Southwark council to recall the payment from Newlyn's so I and UR can pay the £183.91 but not Newlyns charges for bailiffs visits to an individual that should not have been involved in this from the beginning and neither myself or UR should be penalised £256.48 for Southwark council's mistakes.
I requested a response to this complaint within 10 working days so that myself and UR could pay Southwark Council their outstanding money swiftly and put this matter to rest.
I received an email on 31st January stating my email had been sent to the revenues officer and you would aim to respond within 28 days. I have no complaint against this.
The next response I get is on 8th February from CH, Recovery Officer. She asks me for a telephone number and a convenient time to call to discuss the matter further. On 9th February at 07:40 I provided CH with my mobile telephone number and a convenient time for myself. I received no call that day.
I emailed CH on 10th February at 11:40 asking her to contact me urgently to discuss the matter as bailiffs had contacted me saying they were on their way to my home. I requested that she call me to resolve the issue.
I received a voicemail at 14:29 from CH as I was unable to take the call as I was in the middle of treating patients. It was the most unhelpful message simply asking me to pay Newlyns without addressing any of my grievances. In the voicemail she says if I have any problems to call the call centre and ask for CH in the recovery team, but leaves no phone number.
I attempt to contact CH on 11/2/11 . As I have no phone number, I call the number that her voicemail was left from. There is no answer. I contact the council tax number and ask for CH when I get through to a call operator I am informed she works in another department and is not contactable by this number. I email CH asking her for a contact number. She replies minutes later saying she is not contactable by phone and I need to call the call centre if I have any queries. I reply saying I do not see any benefit from calling the call centre and her voicemail did not satisfy my query. I ask her to contact me to clarify matters. I am still waiting.
In my opinion CH failed to understand what my issue is. I do not have a problem paying the outstanding council tax bill. I will happy pay today. I dispute the bailiff's charges only. If Southwark Council recall the account from Newlyn's I will pay the bill immediately and resolve my issue with Newlyn's separately. In addition to this, CH on behalf of Southwark council is further complicating the situation by now making herself uncontactable. I do not expect to have to go through the call centre again to be told if I have any queries/complaints to email Southwark council tax/liberata which is what I did in the first instance and is proving fruitless.
In my opinion this is being dealt with completely unsatisfactorily. It seems as though Southwark Council do not want their money which I owe. I will reiterate, I am happy to pay the outstanding council tax bill of £183.91. The only way this can happen is if Southwark Council is paid by me directly after calling the account back from Newlyn's. I refuse to pay Newlyn's charges at this time and if I pay them only £183.91, they will put that towards their costs first and Southwark Council will not see a penny. IT IS IN SOUTHWARK COUNCIL'S INTERESTS TO CALL THE ACCOUNT BACK.
To add to this I am very confident that the £256.48 of Newlyn's charges is excessive and not strictly legal. I requested some written confirmation and a breakdown of their charges. (This was received on 18/2/11 (today) after requesting it on 28/1/11). It outlines the total outstanding balance at £440.39. The breakdown is
Debt: £183.91;
Trace Fee: £45.00;
Visit 1 Fee: £24.50
Visit 2 Fee: £18.00
Enforcement Fee £125.00
levy Fee £43.98
They keep calling me and leaving messages saying they are allocating bailiffs to my property (I dont have a property, its my parents home) even when I previously asked them to hold the account whilst I disputed with the council and also awaited their charges breakdown.
I have corresponded with Southwark Council who still maintain I pay Newlyns only and are refusing to take payment.
After looking round all the forum sites dealing with council tax problems I gathered the best thing to do is still try and pay the council direct. I paid off the £183.91 online.
I'm not sure what will happen now but i'm sure Newlyns will still be after money and keep threatening me with bailiffs.
Can I have some input please?
1. Am I justified in my initial argument that it should never have gone to Newlyns as they were after the wrong party; hence I shouldnt have to even pay for the 2 visits?
2. What can happen/What should I do now I have actually paid Southwark council directly the exact amount owed to them.
3. Are the bailiffs charges excluding 2 visits legal? I know for a fact they never entered the property they attended.
However, myself and UR graduated in the middle of 2007 and so our student exemption certificates only covered us for part of the year. We officially moved out of the property on 31/8/07.
Unfortunately, myself and UR overlooked the fact that we were no longer exempt from council tax for xxxxxxxx in the period from our graduation to the end of our tenancy and failed to notify Southwark council and pay the necessary bill. I apologise for that, it was an oversight on our parts in the rush and euphoria that followed graduation, moving home and starting new jobs. WM however was still a student during this entire period and hence was exempt from any council tax charges relating to this period.
I therefore do not dispute the council tax bill for £183.91 from Southwark council for 2007 for UR and myself and we are happy to pay it. I'm sure you will agree that as WM was still a student and therefore still exempt from council tax charges, this bill does not relate to her.
However, after receiving your correspondence on 26/1/11 asking for payment, I promptly contacted Southwark council to pay the outstanding balance. I was directed to a bailiff company, Newlyns, to complete payment. On contacting Newlyn's, I was advised that I would be expected to pay an additional £256.48 to cover their charges, bringing the total to £440.39. On further questioning, these 'charges' were to cover 2 bailiff's visits to an address: Flat xx, xxxxx RD
, London on 20/11/10, 27/11/10; a van visit to the same address on 8/12/10 and a tracing fee. This is all after this outstanding council tax bill was sent to court on 23/1/08 at Southwark Court. The address of flat xx xxxx Rd according to Newlyns relates to WM. Please imagine my surprise to find that court action had been taken for this outstanding bill in 2008 and the first I or UR have heard of it is now 2011! On top of this, we are being charged £256.48 for action taken which neither myself or UR, the 'liable parties', knew anything about.
It seems that Southwark Council and Newlyn's have been barking up the wrong tree. They have both been demanding payment for the outstanding council tax bill from the 1 tenant that WAS COMPLETELY EXEMPT from council tax charges. Court action was taken without attempting to contact either myself or UR. It is not acceptable to say simply that as 1 of the former tenants was contacted, that is sufficient. In this case almost 3 and a half years have passed, you cannot assume all tenants are still in contact with one another.
I find it completely unacceptable that myself and UR should have to pay the Newlyns charges because Southwark Council provided them with incorrect information as to who payment was due from. Newlyns should never have been given WM details as she was exempt from council tax charges an 2007. If either myself or UR had been aware of the outstanding council tax bill we would have paid at the earliest opportunity and there would never have been any need for a court order or Newlyns to get involved and thus incur any extra costs.
I have contacted Newlyn's and disputed the payment of their costs for the above mentioned reasons. They advised me they work on Southwark council's instruction and the names and addresses provided by the council.
I re-contacted Southwark council on 28/1/11 explaining the situation. I was advised to complain to this email address so a council tax advisor could review the case and recall the bill from Newlyn's.
I believe Southwark Council is to blame for this mix up as you had all the information available to you with regards to which of the occupants were and were not exempt from Council tax charges during 2007, however you took action against the exempt individual whilst leaving the liable parties in the dark. I would like Southwark council to recall the payment from Newlyn's so I and UR can pay the £183.91 but not Newlyns charges for bailiffs visits to an individual that should not have been involved in this from the beginning and neither myself or UR should be penalised £256.48 for Southwark council's mistakes.
I requested a response to this complaint within 10 working days so that myself and UR could pay Southwark Council their outstanding money swiftly and put this matter to rest.
I received an email on 31st January stating my email had been sent to the revenues officer and you would aim to respond within 28 days. I have no complaint against this.
The next response I get is on 8th February from CH, Recovery Officer. She asks me for a telephone number and a convenient time to call to discuss the matter further. On 9th February at 07:40 I provided CH with my mobile telephone number and a convenient time for myself. I received no call that day.
I emailed CH on 10th February at 11:40 asking her to contact me urgently to discuss the matter as bailiffs had contacted me saying they were on their way to my home. I requested that she call me to resolve the issue.
I received a voicemail at 14:29 from CH as I was unable to take the call as I was in the middle of treating patients. It was the most unhelpful message simply asking me to pay Newlyns without addressing any of my grievances. In the voicemail she says if I have any problems to call the call centre and ask for CH in the recovery team, but leaves no phone number.
I attempt to contact CH on 11/2/11 . As I have no phone number, I call the number that her voicemail was left from. There is no answer. I contact the council tax number and ask for CH when I get through to a call operator I am informed she works in another department and is not contactable by this number. I email CH asking her for a contact number. She replies minutes later saying she is not contactable by phone and I need to call the call centre if I have any queries. I reply saying I do not see any benefit from calling the call centre and her voicemail did not satisfy my query. I ask her to contact me to clarify matters. I am still waiting.
In my opinion CH failed to understand what my issue is. I do not have a problem paying the outstanding council tax bill. I will happy pay today. I dispute the bailiff's charges only. If Southwark Council recall the account from Newlyn's I will pay the bill immediately and resolve my issue with Newlyn's separately. In addition to this, CH on behalf of Southwark council is further complicating the situation by now making herself uncontactable. I do not expect to have to go through the call centre again to be told if I have any queries/complaints to email Southwark council tax/liberata which is what I did in the first instance and is proving fruitless.
In my opinion this is being dealt with completely unsatisfactorily. It seems as though Southwark Council do not want their money which I owe. I will reiterate, I am happy to pay the outstanding council tax bill of £183.91. The only way this can happen is if Southwark Council is paid by me directly after calling the account back from Newlyn's. I refuse to pay Newlyn's charges at this time and if I pay them only £183.91, they will put that towards their costs first and Southwark Council will not see a penny. IT IS IN SOUTHWARK COUNCIL'S INTERESTS TO CALL THE ACCOUNT BACK.
To add to this I am very confident that the £256.48 of Newlyn's charges is excessive and not strictly legal. I requested some written confirmation and a breakdown of their charges. (This was received on 18/2/11 (today) after requesting it on 28/1/11). It outlines the total outstanding balance at £440.39. The breakdown is
Debt: £183.91;
Trace Fee: £45.00;
Visit 1 Fee: £24.50
Visit 2 Fee: £18.00
Enforcement Fee £125.00
levy
Fee £43.98They keep calling me and leaving messages saying they are allocating bailiffs to my property (I dont have a property, its my parents home) even when I previously asked them to hold the account whilst I disputed with the council and also awaited their charges breakdown.
I have corresponded with Southwark Council who still maintain I pay Newlyns only and are refusing to take payment.
After looking round all the forum sites dealing with council tax problems I gathered the best thing to do is still try and pay the council direct. I paid off the £183.91 online.
I'm not sure what will happen now but i'm sure Newlyns will still be after money and keep threatening me with bailiffs.
Can I have some input please?
1. Am I justified in my initial argument that it should never have gone to Newlyns as they were after the wrong party; hence I shouldnt have to even pay for the 2 visits?
2. What can happen/What should I do now I have actually paid Southwark council directly the exact amount owed to them.
3. Are the bailiffs charges excluding 2 visits legal? I know for a fact they never entered the property they attended.
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