Bailiff Charged Monies In Advance

[thisilldo]

Sorry, I know that this question has been visited many times before but I can't find the specific answer to my questions.

The short version is I lost my job and over a two year period got myself into a mess and ended up with two years of liabilities for council tax debt.

I paid bits and pieces to the baliffs but couldn't pay what they wanted me to pay, breaking the agreement. I went back to the council as a last resort and got them to agree to take the debts back as long as I paid a large proportion of the debt (which I managed to get from my parents when the council put bankruptcy forms through my door despite attempts to negotiate with them).

I now have a set agreement with the council to pay a monthly amount. However, when I originally met with the head of the Debt Management Department at the council offices I queried why the bailiff charges were so high to which he replied they added their fees for removal even if they didn't attend. After reading everything on here I'm getting the impression that this isn't legal.

The info you probably need is as follows:
The bailiff in question is Newlyn
I received a Notice of Distress for each of the liability orders in place which was posted through my door by a lay bailiff who never knocked.
I have never signed the Notice of Distress nor have I ever had another bailiff at my door.
I have spoken to the certified bailiff who sent me a text but he has never been to my house.
Each Notice of Distress was for a car. One was for our own vehicle but the other was for a vehicle that doesn't belong here and was probablly just parked on the street at the time as I haven't seen said vehicle before or after.
The charges imposed for each liabilty order are £331.50 and £233.34 respectively.

I have read everything on the forum about misrepresentation and fraud as a result of charging for work that has not been carried out. Does this still apply when they have levied goods on my driveway? Secondly, how does this apply to the Notice of Distress for the vehicle that was not mine.

I am aware that the bailiff can charge £24.00 and £18.00 for a first and second visit and £12.00 for a walking posession order. Is a walking posession order the same as a notice of distress? If not what are the differences. (I have read the guide in this forum but this doesn't get answered there)

I fail to see where the extra monies come from other than as a levy fee for the vehicle the notice of distress wass charged on but even then they would not have been allowed to charge more than £36.00 plus 2.5%.

I have requested a list of charges from Newlyn and am awaiting their response.

My final question is if they have charged me for attendance with a van, is this allowed as this never took place. Is this fraud?

Any help is much appreciated.

[thisilldo]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

Another quick question, can you tell me the difference between a ceritified and lay bailiff as google isnt beinng vvery useful on this one.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

A notice of distress is just what it says it is. It is a warning (a notice) that if you do not pay what you owe then the bailiffs will levy on your goods. A levy means the goods seized by the bailiffs become his.

However, a walking possession is an agreement and in my opinion since it is an agreement, I believe that it should be signed by the debtor in order to make it valid. I have seen others (on other fora) advise it does not need a signature, but I fail to see how it can be an agreement if the debtor has not signed to say they agree to its terms. When a debtor signs a walking possession, the goods then become the property of the bailiffs, but in exchange for payment, he will leave the goods with you until such time that you do not pay him. Then he will return and remove the goods.

When you requested your charges from Newlyn did you do this by way of a formal Subject Access Request or did you merely ask them?

The van fees are where it all becomes quite complex, but basically the charge for a van must be "reasonable" which is how bailiffs believe they can charge what they see fit. However, £130 plus for a van is not "reasonable" when you can hire a van for around £50. The other thing you should bear in mind here, is that the van they use will not just visit one debtor, it will visit as many as they can fit it. Therefore, it follows that they cannot charge each and every debtor visited £130 instead, the £130 should be divided by however many people were visited.

You cannot be expected to pay simply because the bailiffs says he visited you. At each and every visit that incurs a fee, the bailiffs should leave you a notice. You cannot prove a negative, so you will have to wait for the results of your SAR to prove otherwise.

I do not know what you mean by a "lay bailiff". Do you mean an uncertificated bailiff as opposed to a certificated bailiff? In order to collect unpaid council tax each bailiff must be certificated (not certified) in order to collect rent arrears, council tax arrears and certain other debts for example parking fines and speeding fines - all as per the bailiff guide.

[thisilldo]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

Thanks Amy

Yes I did ask for an SAR.

The lay bailiff term arose as a result of my conversation with the certified bailiff. The order of distress that was put through my door on both occasions was late at night.

When I spoke to the certified bailiff, he said that he had never attended my property and as such it must have been a lay bailiff that had put the notice of distress through my door.

Can I make it clear that I have never signed anything or dealt with a bailiff at my door. The only paper correspondence that I have had was the two notice of distress froms that were served. I do not have a walking posession order nor has anybody ever attempted to give me one.

Newlyn paperwork states that they can charge reasonanblle charges for a van. However a van never attended as the certified bailiff never attended. He has admiited this himself. If I phone him I'm fairly confident that I can can get him to state this again whilst I'm recording the conversation. If I can, where does this stand with regards to the charges. What can they charge me for? The 'lay bailiff' (whoever this may be) only attended once for each account to deliver the notice of distress, therefore only allowing them to charge for one visit?

Finally, another quick question, sorry!! Newlyn charge £3.00 for every £100.00 paid to your account even when using a debit card. I've read on here however that Section 10 of the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 states that "No person shall be entitled to charge, or recover from, a tenant any fees, charges or expenses for levying a distress, or for doing any act or thing in relation thereto, other than those authorised by the tables in Appendix 1 to these Rules." Is this true? If so, why are Newlyn so free to get away with this and even have the nerve to advertise as such on their website? My card is a Visa Electon and my partners is just a standard visa debit card. I've read the relevant info and know what to do if this true or are Newlyn excempt from this law (they clearly believe that they are above it anyway).

Many thanks Amy or anybody elso who feels the need to chip in. I want to have an iron tight case against the bailiffs and council before I go stomping in. They tried to overcharge me to the sum of £800.00 when they took the debt back. It took weeks of denial to get them to admit they were in the wrong.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

The bailiff is lying to you. All bailiffs collecting unpaid council tax must be certificated.

Yes, it is true about the card fee or we would not write it. The fee is not allowed to be charged for under Schedule 5.

I think you need to have a really good read of our bailiff forum and take in the information and I appreciate there is a lot of information, but for starters you must learn that bailiffs are certificated, they are not certified.

[thisilldo]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

Sorry I think I must have read certified somewhere.

I'm not questioning you at all, I just find it incredible that they get away with it to the extent that they do. I was therefore wondering if they have a get out clause. I've read Section 10 of the Distress for Rent Act that is in some of the posts and fully undersatnd it and clearly they are nothing more than liers.

I will wait for the SAR to arrive and then ask again if thats ok.

Many thanks for all your help.

[Amy]

Re: Bailiff Chared Monies In Advance

They do it because they presume that people do not know their rights and because the councils (being vicariously liable) allow them to carry on doing it.

There is no money to be made collecting unpaid council tax, so they make their fees up elsewhere.