Levy on my car

[kazza169]

Hi, please help!!

Rossendales have placed a levy on my car & while i've refused to pay them & said i will only pay the council i know they're not going to go away yet. I'm working on getting the council to withdraw the bailiffs but no joy so far.
If i was to transfer my car into my partners name so i was no longer the legal owner of the vehicle would the levy still stand? I need my car for getting to work & i only live on a small estate so i'm afraid one day they'll notice it even though its not next to my house.

[Amy]

Re: Levy on my car

What is this debt for?

[kazza169]

Re: Levy on my car

It is for council tax debt.

[Amy]

Re: Levy on my car

It depends on whether your partner is also liable for this debt. Council tax debt is jointly and severally liable - does he live with you?

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

I assume you're talking about changing the V5 VOSA document into your partner's name. Unfortunately this is only a record of the registered keeper for the vehicle, not the legal owner, so if this is what you're meaning it would not work - sorry!

Is the car on HP? If so you may not be the legal owner in any case?

[kazza169]

Re: Levy on my car

No he is not jointly responsible for this debt, it was from before we lived together. No i don't think the car is on hire purchase, it was my parents but when they got a new one they gave the car to me & i'm paying them the rest of the money owed on the car.

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

No he is not jointly responsible for this debt, it was from before we lived together. No i don't think the car is on hire purchase, it was my parents but when they got a new one they gave the car to me & i'm paying them the rest of the money owed on the car.

Sorry to be so nosey, but did your parents have HP on it and you've just taken over their repayments, or had they paid for it and you're buying it off them for an agreed price. Also do your parents know / would you mind if they knew of your current situation?

[kazza169]

Re: Levy on my car

Its ok, the car was on hire purchase & i'm pretty certain they've paid it off & i'm paying them at a rate i can afford. My parents don't know & i'm trying to keep them out of it if possible.
Why do you ask?

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

Was asking as if they still had outstanding HP on it, even if you are making the payments they would still legally own the vehicle (or the finance company) so it could not be seized from you. Totally understand you not wanting them to know - mine know nothing about the terrible financial situation I'm in either!

If the bailiffs are after "your" car, I'd suggest you don't park it in the same street you live in, but a shhort walk away. Similarly at work if you park in a works car park it may be best to park elsewhere for a while. They are devious!
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Sorry, still mulling over your situation. You say you need your car to get to work. Does this mean you cannot get there by public transport, or do you (could you) use your car for work. The reason I ask is that bailiffs are not allowed to remove goods essential for your work. If you can make your car essential, then they cannot take it!

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

Me Again!!!!!!

Sections 1 and 5 of the Certificate show the name and address of the
registered keeper (the current keeper).

The registered keeper is NOT necessarily the legal owner of the vehicle.

The registered keeper is:

• The person who is liable for the licensing of the vehicle and declaring the
vehicle off the public road
• The person to whom the police and other enforcement authorities would
direct any enquiries eg about motoring and parking offences.

The legal owner may include:

• The person who bought the vehicle
• The company/legal entity who bought the vehicle eg Finance/Leasing
companies
• The person who receives the vehicle as a gift or prize


If your parents bought the car and have a receipt for it, they may well still be able to be classified as the legal owners in which case the bailiffs cannot touch it! Difficult bit now is relating this to your parents if you absolutely have to - can't help you with that one sorry!

Good luck,

David

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

Following on:

If the goods levied upon are not owned by you then the levy is not valid and accordingly, the company must refund the levy fee and all associated charges resulting from this levy.

This "practice" of levying upon a vehicle is now so widespread that complaints have reached the Local Government Ombudsman and this in turn had lead to Andrew Hobley, the Senior LGO Investigator writing in last month's IRRV (Institute of Ratings, Revenues and Valuation) INSIGHT Magazine on this very subject where he confirms that "these practices are likely to result in a finding of administrative fault by the Ombudsman".

The IRRV have very kindly provided our business with a copy of the article and they have confirmed that they are happy for it to be referred to but that we should acknowledge that it has been provided by the IRRV and is from their INSIGHT Magazine.


PS: The final paragraph is very important and I would suggest that when writing a letter of complaint that a copy of this article is provided to them as well. You should also copy your letter to the local authority and ensure that it is marked as a FORMAL COMPLAINT and addressed to the CHIEF EXECUTIVE.

.



April 2010 Insight – Local Government Ombudsman


As it has become increasingly difficult for bailiffs to gain access to debtors’ homes for the purpose of taking goods for council tax, the practice of levying on vehicles in the absence of the debtor has grown. These vehicles may be parked on the debtor’s property or in the road outside. This practice, if abused, can lead to the Local Government Ombudsman finding fault with the bailiffs and the council employing them.

The Ombudsman has dealt with at least four unreported complaints when cars parked in the road were levied on, but did not belong to the debtor. In each case the bailiffs assumed that the vehicle belonged to the debtor, but did not check ownership before making the levy. In one case, having levied on the car, a notice was put through the debtor’s letterbox including the fees. As the debtor did not respond, the bailiffs returned to remove the car, but found it was no longer there. Despite not being able to levy on the goods the bailiffs charged a “van fee” (under head C of Schedule 5 of the 1992 Administration and Enforcement Regulations, as amended) of £105, and posted a further notice through the letterbox to advise the debtor of the new, higher debt.

In three other complaints, involving a different authority, the same thing happened – with levy and van fees being charged for cars not owned by the debtors. In those cases the debtors contacted the bailiffs to say that they did not own the cars. The bailiffs acknowledged this, but still insisted that the levy and van fees were payable. When our investigator queried this with the council, they were told that the bailiffs would have checked with the DVLA before moving the car, but even if the debtor did not own the car the levy fees would not have been removed.

These practices are likely to result in a finding of administrative fault by the Ombudsman. There is no question that when bailiffs have carried out a relevant action, they are entitled to the fees the law allows them to charge. However in these cases the levy and van fees were being charged for goods that the bailiff would not have removed - had the car been found and the bailiffs checked before removal, it would have been found they belonged to a third party.

A council may say that a check would be made before any removal, but this does not prevent possible fault. Some debtors will pay when they receive the levy or other notices, and will pay fees that should not have been charged to them. Levying on a car parked on someone’s drive may appear less problematic as it is more likely to belong to the debtor. But if it does not, and levy and van fees are charged and paid, then the debtor has suffered the injustice of paying fees that were not due.

In all four cases the Ombudsman recommended the same remedy. The levy and van fees should be refunded and the council should ensure their bailiffs check ownership of vehicles with the DVLA before levying on them. Debtors should pay what they owe, and if a vehicle belongs to the debtor (and any levy would not be excessive) then levying and charging reasonable fees would not be questioned by the Ombudsman.

All councils are encouraged to ensure their written policies say that bailiffs, whether internal or external, do not levy on vehicles without first checking ownership. Failure to do so could mean that any future complaints to the Ombudsman may be the subject of a public report against the authority.


Andrew Hobley is Senior Investigator with the Local Government Ombudsman.

Only MAJOR issue here is the bailiffs cannot check ownership of the vehicle with the DVLA, they can only check the Registered Keeper which as stated on the V5 above does not mean the legal owner necessarily.

Surely somehow here you can make a defense?

[kazza169]

Re: Levy on my car

Thanks for all of the above info, will try & find out somehow if the car is still under hire purchase or not.
If its not then i could possibly sign it over to my partner as a gift because he won't be paying for it, so might get round it that way. Have got a week before the bailiffs will be back so need to act fast or win the lottery!!
I can get to work via public transport but it is an 90min trip each way because we've moved offices & i have a car share agreement in place with two others so i'd be letting them down. Plus i'd have to pay for a car i didn't have & explain that to my parents - so really need to avoid that!

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

Thanks for all of the above info, will try & find out somehow if the car is still under hire purchase or not.
If its not then i could possibly sign it over to my partner as a gift because he won't be paying for it, so might get round it that way. Have got a week before the bailiffs will be back so need to act fast or win the lottery!!
I can get to work via public transport but it is an 90min trip each way because we've moved offices & i have a car share agreement in place with two others so i'd be letting them down. Plus i'd have to pay for a car i didn't have & explain that to my parents - so really need to avoid that!

I'm not 100% positive on this, but I have a feeling if you've only very recently changed the Registered Keeper (not the legal owner) they have the right to make you undo the change as it was clearly done to avoid the law.

You can easily check if there's outstanding HP on the car - do an HPI check. May even be able to get a garage to do one free of charge for you if you're prepared to go through pretending you're going to buy a new car then changing your mind at the very very last minute. Don't go straight for the £3.95 one as this doesn't cover outstanding finance.

Your best hope that I can see is that you either need your car for your work so it becomes a tool of work so cannot be touched. Alternatively (though I suspect I know what you'll say to this) is there any way you can persuade your parents to claim legal ownership of the vehicle. They could easily prove this and could effectively have lent you the car on a semi-permanent basis.

Otherwise, as stated before, leave the car a few streets away and walk to and from it. They may still get you at your place of work though!

Sorry I'm not being more helpful - hopefully someone may look at this and see something I've missed.

[WendyB]

Re: Levy on my car

But in the meantime wouldn't it be easier to come to a payment arrangement with the council to pay what you owe? This would then negate the need to swap ownership of the car etc. What's more, if you haven't signed any walking possession or levy then the bailiffs can't take your car. Or anything else for that matter, providing you have not already allowed them peaceful entry. Added to that if your car is needed for work then that's another reason for them not taking it. However, to be on the safe side, park the car a few streets away where they can't get at it. If they do decide to clamp it or remove it, they will do this first and ask questions later, so they really wouldn't care who's name it was in, it would just be more hassle for you. You have to remember that bailiffs lie and cheat and inflate their fees because they don't get paid if they don't collect,so will go to any lengths to make you pay up, and that includes outright illegalities.

[Caspar]

Re: Levy on my car

But in the meantime wouldn't it be easier to come to a payment arrangement with the council to pay what you owe? This would then negate the need to swap ownership of the car etc. What's more, if you haven't signed any walking possession or levy then the bailiffs can't take your car. Or anything else for that matter, providing you have not already allowed them peaceful entry. Added to that if your car is needed for work then that's another reason for them not taking it. However, to be on the safe side, park the car a few streets away where they can't get at it. If they do decide to clamp it or remove it, they will do this first and ask questions later, so they really wouldn't care who's name it was in, it would just be more hassle for you. You have to remember that bailiffs lie and cheat and inflate their fees because they don't get paid if they don't collect,so will go to any lengths to make you pay up, and that includes outright illegalities.

I couldn't agree more Wendy, BUT as you know once its been passed to bailiffs councils can be very obstructive in taking the account back again. Maybe the best way forward is to do an IE sheet - post it on here for us to have a look at over the weekend, then offer a reasonable repayment proposal to the council (NOT the bailiffs) enclosing your first payment made out to the council. State in the letter that they can see from your IE sheet that your offer is reasonable and that you are assuming they are accepting it and calling off the bailiffs unless they write to tell you any different. Maybe (ADVICE PLEASE ON THIS ACTION) write to the bailiffs saying you are asking them to recall the account and to suspend any further action.

In the meantime continue to take the sensible precautions of leaving your car parked a few streets away. Never, ever under any circumstances let the bailiffs into your house (they have the right to walk through an unlocked door or open window so keep everything downstairs locked!) They will come up with all sorts of excuses, please can we use your toilet, discuss in the warmth, save you the embarrassment of us being on your doorstep etc... etc... DO NOT LET THEM IN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES as once they've gained entry legally they can legally break down your door next time or smash a window to get in.

Wendy, what do you think of the action suggested above?