jacobs and notice of seizure

[maggott]

today I visited my daughter and parked my car in her drive she had a visit from jacob the bailiffs for an outstanding council tax bill of £282.69 she refused him permission to enter her property and he left after the usual threats,he returned soon after and pushed a notice of seizure through her door which had the details of my vehicle on it,I know she can get this removed by writing to jacobs and denying ownership, I also believe they are in serious breech of local goverment ombudsman guide lines on levying on vehicles without doing dvla checks.Is there anyone I can complain to as I am an innocent party as this has left me very angry and distressed

[Amy]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

You are correct, you need to write to Simon Jacobs at 4 Europa Boulevard, Birkenhead, Merseyside, CH41 4PE and also to the local council because a levy will have been applied and the council should allow this practice.

Is this the first visit she has had by bailiffs?

If it is a first visit then the purpose of that visit is not to inflate their fees it is to obtain a payment towards the debt.

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

April 2010 Insight-Local government Ombudsman
　
As it has become increasingly difficult for bailiffs to gain access to debtor's homes for the purpose of taken goods for council tax,the practice of levying on vehicles in the absence of debtors has grown. These vehicles may be parked on the debtor's property or in the road outside. This practice, if abused can lead to the Local government Ombudsman finding fault with bailiffs and the council employing them.
The Ombudsman has dealt with at least four unreported complaints when cars parked in the road were levied on,but did not belong to the debtor. In each case the bailiff assumed that the vehicle belonged to the debtor, but did not check ownership before making the levy. In one case, having levied on the car, a notice was put through the debtor's letterbox including the fees. As the debtor did not respond, the bailiffs returned to remove the car, but found it was no longer there. Despite not being able to levy on the goods the bailiffs charged a "van fee" (under head C of schedule 5 of the 1992 Administrations and Enforcement Regulations,as amended) of £105, and posted a further notice through the letterbox to advise the debtor of the new,higher debt.
In three other complaints, involving a different authority, the same thing happened- with levy and vans being charged for cars not owned by the debtors.I n those cases the debtors contacted the bailiffs to say they did not own the cars. The bailiffs acknowledged this, but still insisted that the levy and van fees were payable. When our investigator queried this with the council, they were told would have checked with the DVLA before moving the car, but even if the debtor did not own the car the fees would not have been removed.
These practices are likely to result in a finding of administrative fault by the Ombudsman. There is no question that when bailiffs have carried out the relevant action they are entitled to the fees the law allows them to charge. However in these cases the levy and van fees were being charged for goods that the bailiff would not have removed- had the car been found and the bailiffs checked before removal, it would have been found to belong to a third party.
A council may say that a check would be made before any removal, but this does not prevent possible fault. Some debtors will pay when they receive the levy or other notices, and will pay fees that should not have been charged to them. Levying on a car parked on someone's drive may appear less problematic as it is more likely to belong to the debtor. But if it does not, and levy and van fees are charged and paid, then the debtor has suffered the injustice of paying fees that were not due.
In all four cases the Ombudsman recommended the same remedy. The levy and van fees should be refunded and the council should ensure their bailiffs check ownership of vehicles with the DVLA before levying on them. Debtors should pay what they owe, and if a vehicle belongs to the debtor (and any levy would not be excessive) then levying and charging reasonable fees would not be questioned by the Ombudsman.
All councils are encouraged to ensure their written policies say that bailiffs, whether internal or external, do not levy on vehicles without first checking ownership. Failure to do so could mean that any future complaints to the Ombudsman may be the subject of a public report against the authority.
Andrew Hobley is Senior Investigator with the Local government Ombudsman
　

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so after reading that should I as the innocent victim who is so distraught upset and angry at the possibilty of losing my car to an error or sheer incompetence of the bailiff complain straight to the local goverment ombudsman and possibly the county court

[Guest]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

Yes, but be prepared to hit a wall of indifference, incompetence and ineptitude from all concerned.

The truth is, they don't care and they just want to be paid. In the first instance, as above, write to the council and to Jacobs, as the Ombudsman will expect that you try to resolve this with the bailiff's and council first.

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

ok will do, but I will give them the same time scale to reply that they would have given me to pay if it was my debt, 5 days, the dead line will be explained to them in letter and if they have not resolved my complaint within that time there will be no further correspondence and I will send letters of complaint to the LGO and COUNTY COURT. That seems pretty fair to me.

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

today hand delivered letters of complaint to jacobs and council, jacobs verbal response was they can levy on any vehicle they see my daughter driving or on her property,and they refuse to remove the notice of seizure or levy charges even though she handed them a letter stating she is not the owner, simple dvla check would have confirmed this, so have requested that they put in writing the reasons why they will not remove the charges as the goods belong to a third partythe council response was very similar

[Amy]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

This is why you should never speak with them on the telephone.

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

didnt face to face, got receipts for letter of complaint, daughters statement that shes not the owner and reciept for letter and copy of benefits. she is a single mother with 3 children on income support the bailiff ignored this at the time of visit just like he ignored her denial of ownership, at which he should have ran a dvla check if he had this situation would never arose

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

I now wish to complain now in my own right as an innocent third party, do I include all the information I recieved from my daughter about the bailiffs actions, or do I just say that the bailiff issued a notice of seizure on a vehicle not associated with the debt and that when supplied with proof of ownership they refused to remove the notice and levy

[exbailiff]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

Quite a straightforward one here. The good old practice of writing anything on a Seizure Notice to try and panic people into a response. Another one was looking through a window of a house and listing goods....not acceptable in law!

The levy (Seizure Notice) is not worth the paper it is written on. For a start, even if it was your daughter's car the bailiff has seized it then left it with her....this would be a walking possession agreement, this must be signed by the debtor to be valid. The bailiff has no intention of seizing the car, if he did then he would have at least clamped it!

In the meantime telephone the council, ask for the Revenues Manager (no other lacky will do) and explain the situation. Also contact the Enforcement Services Association and follow their complaints process against their members, as Simon is their President this should be enough to ruffle his feathers and ensure that the matter gets his personal attention!

Don't panic....as I say it is done purely to provoke a response, they would have to do a DVLA check before seizing or taking any vehicle anyway, or they risk being sued for damages when proven that they took someone elses car!

Find out the name of the bailiff and threaten to file a Form 4 Complaint at the County Court. Also point out to Simon Jacobs that if he or his employees touch your vehicle then you will sue them for damages, to include pyschological distress and trauma

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

received letter from wbc stating the bailiff acted correctly, think not, this is the bit that amuses me ;I am sorry for any upset and inconvenience this may have caused you but I am satisfied that the bailiffs acted correctly in this matter.I can confirm that the levy on your vehicle has been removed, and that NO FURTHER ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU OR YOUR VEHICLE IN THIS MATTER mmmmmmmmmm wonder what they where going to do to me, put me in the stocks, name and shame me as a relative of a poll tax defaulter . IT WAS NOT ME I AM INNOCENT

[Guest]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

Make a formal complaint against the council and make sure you include a copy of this letter, since it is clear that the bailiff has not acted correctly as you were not the debtor.

Find out why the writer was "...satisfied that the bailiffs acted correctly in this matter" which of course will be simply because they cannot be bothered to investigate and then pass the whole thing to the Local Government Ombudsman citing misfeasance in public office.

Councils are vicariously liable for the conduct of the bailiffs that they instruct and furthermore, they have a responsibility to monitor what is done in their name. An equally important principle is that everyone who is employed by the Council automatically incurs a legal duty of care to all those who might be affected by his work, his actions or his failure to act.

Your next step really should be the Local Government Ombudsman.

[maggott]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

thanks. but the council has a tier complaint system, and now I`ve got to complain to tier 2 , by the time this is finished they will tell I`m to late to complain to anyone else,I also believe this is fraud,demanding levy on goods that they cannot seize or believe they cannot seize

[Guest]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

You have not "got" to do anything. They may tell you so, but guess what?

They are lying.

Since you allege that this is fraud, contact the LGO and let them decide. They can elect to take on a case before you have exhuasted the council's own complaints procedure if they believe it is sufficiently serious to warrant their attention. I know this because I have done it. Contact them at Local Government Ombudsman Home

[Amy]

Re: jacobs and notice of seizure

They levied on your car for a debt that wasn't yours and you didn't listen to them, why would you start now?