Suing council for their bailiffs

[outlawlgo]

After formally complaining to the council, appealing to the LGO, reporting to the police, ICO and the magistrate's court about my experience with my council and Rossendales, regarding council tax collection I must now consider other avenues. All previous mentioned actiones have arrived at dead ends.

How do you sue your council for its conduct regarding their use of private bailiff firms? And would the following events be sufficient grounds to do so?

1) Council being negligent in sending case to Rossendales, as a quick reference to payment history would indicate that there was little risk of defaulting.

2) Failure of Rossendales and the Council transfering on a daily basis information relating to my council tax account, resulting in Rossendales overcharging from the outset. And their records not registering payments made up to six weeks previous.

3) Two phantom visits from bailiffs, in which fees of £24.50 and £18 were charged.

4) An illegal levy and fraudulent levy fee of £25 for the distraint of a vehicle by Rossendale's bailiff, in which I did not receive a notice of distress, had no knowledge about it and it was not my vehicle.

5) A fraudulent "invented" fee of £60 added to account by a Rossendale's bailiff.

6) A fraudulent van fee of £110 added to account by a Rossendale's bailiff.

7) A £24.50 Schedule 5 head H fee fraudulently added to account.

8) Leaving a removal notice wedged outside of the security door at my residence, breaching the Data Protection Act and contravening The National Standards for Enforcement Agents requirements, as it could clearly have been intercepted by someone passing.

9) Council refusing full payment and insisting I pay Rossendales.

I have not seen any cases where a council has been sued, but I would welcome any information of what is involved.

[wahoo_thomas]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Hi mate
This may not help you but worth trying.
have had recent dealings with rossendales and they tried the same with me ,illegal levies etc ,am pursuing the council involved at the moment .Have u any proof of the illegal levy etc as u can get confirmation from dvla that it is not your vehicle i would suggest getting that first , u can write to

F.A.O. SC1
DVLA
SWANSEA
SA99 1ZZ
Inform them of illegal levy they will send u back proof not your vehicle then go from there mate

good luck

jim

[outlawlgo]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Thanks wahoo, I better mention that the fees are not an issue here as such, because I refused to pay or have any contact whatsoever with Rossendales.

I'm aggrieved in these proceedings by the fact that the council has admitted (in the case of the illegal levy) that Rossendales were not following best practice in levying the vehicle, but have not taken any real responsibility for all the occasions where Rossendales have attempted to defraud me. The LGO are, either too stacked out with work or are just covering up for the council and bailiffs. The magistrate's court are also biased.

Everyone knows it's standard practice for private bailiff firms to behave this way. But no action is ever taken against them.

The DVLA have revealed to me that Rossendales have access to vehicle owners details on a next day basis, so there is no excuse for them levying the wrong vehicle.

I really need to know the likelihood of successfully getting either the local authority or Rossendales or both prosecuted.

[Amy]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

I think your main problem here is what exactly you are suing for because you will need to sue for something tangible, which you cannot do, as far as I can tell from what you have written, as you haven't paid any of Rossendales fees or have lost any property.

When you say that you complained to the council, the magistrate court and to the ICO - what form did these complaints take and why were you met with a 'dead end'?

Have you tried a formal complaint against the bailiff? Was the bailiff dealing with your council tax certificated?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Thanks Amy

My thoughts were of suing the council for the time wasted in trying to bring about some justice relating to the councils reckless use of private bailiff firms and their continual denial of their unlawful behaviour. I understand that anyone having to deal with complaints such as these will have instructions from above to deny any wrong doing of the authorities and their bailiffs and will be fearful for loosing their jobs.

I have submitted two form 4 complaints to the court for each of the bailiffs involved around the middle of April 2010, one of which I am still awaiting a response. The details of the one received follow:

Contents of the form 4 complaint

Please note the delay of this complaint is due to the lengthy process in completing the complaints procedures with the local authority, firm of bailiffs and local government ombudsman.

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr. ** formerly of rossendales bailiffs (but now Philips Collection Services Ltd) on behalf of N.E. Lincs council/Rossendales bailiffs in applying fees illegally to my account in relation to my council tax liability.

He visited my premises at * ** ***, **** th March 2009 and allegedly created a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he had levied against a vehicle which was in the car park at the apartment complex where I live.

Fees I was charged by Rossendales were not itemised, until *th May 2009 in response to a subject access request in which a levy fee was itemised. (I knew nothing about the levy).

I was unaware that the bailiff had levied on a vehicle until *st July 2009 when I was sent a copy of the document in response to a formal complaint about the conduct and application of fees by Rossendales.

There was no notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory handed to me or left with me on the th of March 2009, only an envelope I found by chance wedged outside the entrance door to the apartment block of my residence, in which was a demand for £2**.** headed bailiff removal and threatening to remove goods even in my absence. I believe Regulation 45 SI 1992/613 requires a bailiff to hand the debtor a copy of the regulation, a memo of the amount due and a copy of any agreement.

This vehicle is not owned by me. I do not know the owner of the vehicle and it would appear that the bailiff has randomly selected this car because it was parked close to my home, despite confirmation from the DVLA that Rossendales have access to driver/vehicle data on a next day basis. It is of my opinion that the bailiff’s action was solely to generate an extra feeand in illegally seizing this vehicle he applied a £25 levy fee to my account.

Additionally regarding the £2**.** demand, if the dubious fees I had already incurred (First and second visit fees £24.50 and £18 plus levy fee £25 plus £110 van fee) were added to my remaining debt of £57 to the council, there is still an overcharge of £60. Interestingly the copy of the supposed levy document I received in July did not include the £60 overcharge, whereas the demand I received on the day had the amount hand written. Would this have any relevance as to why I did not get to know about the levy?

HMCS Reply

** May 2010

Dear Mr ****

Your complaint against the bailiff Mr **** was referred to the circuit Judge, His Honour Judge Appleton, who has noted the nature and detail of the complaint from both parties. His Honour is satisfied and feels the matter needs no further action. Please find enclosed His Honours notes.

Yours faithfully
** ****

1988 No. 2050 (L.25)

DISTRESS

The Distress for Rent Rules 1988

Made 21st November 1988

Coming into force 1st February 1989

Complaints as to fitness to hold a certificate
8.—(1) Any complaint as to the conduct or fitness of any bailiff who holds a certificate shall be made to the court from which the certificate issued.

(2) Upon receipt of any such complaint as is referred to in paragraph (1), the proper officer shall send written details of the complaint to the bailiff and require him to deliver a written reply to the court office within 14 days thereafter or within such longer time as the court may specify.

(3) If the bailiff fails to deliver the reply within the time specified, or if upon reading the reply the Judge is unsatisfied as to the bailiff's fitness to hold a certificate, the proper officer shall issue a notice summoning the bailiff to appear before the Judge on a specified date and show cause why his certificate should not be cancelled.

Complaint against Bailiff Mr * **** from Mr * **** Dated */4/10

The Complainant got into trouble paying his council tax ad the Bailiff became involved. The complaint concerns fees. The Bailiff’s reply at paragraph 3deals with the matter. I am not of the view that the bailiff’s fitness is in question. Please inform the parties of my determination.

* may 2010. His Honour Judge *****

I will add that the judge obviously paid little attention to what my complaint was about i.e. (the complaint concerned fees). No mention of the illegal levy.

Further to this, I didn't get into trouble paying my council tax despite the judges comments.

I received no details of the bailiffs supposed reply to the complaint.

The judges signature was tippexed out. (This is a court document!)

[David-G1ZQC]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Hi Outlaw.

I am on a mission to do something similar to you.
I appear to have them "on the run" as the warrant has been returned to the council
and am paying direct.
Can't give any details as I have gone under the banner of "Without Prejudice".
I am after a speedy solution to avoid further litigation in the hope that I will get a favourable outcome.

I will be posting the results later.

D in Lincolnshire. :beagle:

[BAILIFFCHASER]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

All you do is a claim for restitution against the council and add the bailiffs and the second defendant. Screw them in court. i did here is a link of a cutting i got. May help you get a bit of bailiff power. :


Original judgement excluding what the bailiffs refunded.
MEDWAY COUNCIL picture by LETSMAKEAMARK - Photobucket

Jbw defence that dropped medway into it :






Then this in the local rag :

[outlawlgo]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

It's encouraging to see that the Authorities don't always get away with it. I watched the video of the warden being filmed, how ironic that he should object to being filmed.

Making a claim for restitution against the council and the bailiffs may not be the way to go in my case as I didn't ever pay the bailiffs their fraudulent fees.

What I'm concerned with is how the council's and bailiffs get away with fraud, attempted fraud and illegal levies etc. etc. and why they are supported by the Police, LGO etc.

[BAILIFFCHASER]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

It's encouraging to see that the Authorities don't always get away with it. I watched the video of the warden being filmed, how ironic that he should object to being filmed.

Making a claim for restitution against the council and the bailiffs may not be the way to go in my case as I didn't ever pay the bailiffs their fraudulent fees.

What I'm concerned with is how the council's and bailiffs get away with fraud, attempted fraud and illegal levies etc. etc. and why they are supported by the Police, LGO etc.

The thing is if they can play the system so can the general public. Take the to court for restitution. Get a judgement and then send in a hceo or go in yourself supported by the boys in blue.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Hi Outlaw.

I am on a mission to do something similar to you.
I appear to have them "on the run" as the warrant has been returned to the council
and am paying direct.
Can't give any details as I have gone under the banner of "Without Prejudice".
I am after a speedy solution to avoid further litigation in the hope that I will get a favourable outcome.

I will be posting the results later.

D in Lincolnshire. :beagle:

Once you settle post it on a forum.

[LavenderRose]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Hiya outlawIgo
I too have had same problem with Rossendales and I almost cost the bailiff from Rossendales his job. The council employ Rossendales to act on their behalf so they are partly responsible for ensuring they follow their code of practice but if you have no luck complaining to them like I did I simply sent my comlaint to the Ombudsman and complained to him about the councils lack of acknowledgement. That shifted them and ive heard since that my council are looking into them as a business due to all the complaints made against them so it is worth complaining. Also bailiffs have to obtain a license to become a bailiff and set a bond at £10k. If they breach their code of conduct and act inappropriately, you can complain to the courts who gave them their license. If they are found to be in the wrong they can lose their license and ultimately their job! I would be prepared though as Rossendales always deny everything. You can also take them in front of a judge who will fine them and take their license away if they are found to be exceeding the limit of their authority and fraud as defrauding a debtor in this way is an offence under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.. If the judge finds them guilty they will have to pay court costs. You can ask the judge to write some or all of your debt and claim compensation. I can post you a template letter if you need one. Also find out who is their Enforcement Association Service.
You need to complete a Form 4: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...n_bailiff2.htm
This link will give you all the info you need.
You can also complain to this address.


The Secretary
Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies
Kensington House
33 Imperial Square
Cheltenham
Gloucester
GL50 1QZ
Tel: 01242 241456
www.acea.org.uk

Good Luck
LavenderRose

[outlawlgo]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Originally Posted by BAILIFFCHASER
The thing is if they can play the system so can the general public. Take the to court for restitution. Get a judgement and then send in a hceo or go in yourself supported by the boys in blue.

Will look into this, as an appeal to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) to a Humberside Police complaint for not investigating the council for attempted fraud, resulted in an unsatisfactory outcome. As expected, the IPCC were on the side of the Police.

----------------------------------

LavenderRose

Thanks for the information, but unfortunately I've taken all these actions, but they've all pretty much covered one anothers backs, though I do believe that one bailiff involved was dismissed from Rossendales. Could of been that the bailiff firm wanted to get rid of this guy and my complaint was their excuse. I believe that he now defrauds for Philips Collection Services Ltd.

Post #5, on this thread gives an account of one of my Form4's and the courts response. Another form 4 for a different Rossendales' bailiff involved in the attempted fraud, was not even dealt with by the court.

You may be interested in the final LGO decision, to my appeal to their first findings, originally posted on:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...709#post163709

What are the LGO paid for?

I'm posting the final decision made by the LGO (York office) to my appeal to their first decision regarding my complaint about North East Lincolnshire Council and their bailiffs Rossendales. What follows is the complete contents of the reply, with my comments in red, I hope for it to demonstrate how unlikely it is that one may get a satisfactory outcome from these jokers and maybe there is some other route which can be taken involving less pointless banging one's head against a brick wall.


If telephoning contact: Mrs K Sykes's Personal Assistant on 01904xxxxx
If e-mailing: j.burns@lgo org uk

Dear Mr. Outlaw the lgo,

As you are dissatisfied with the decision on your complaint the Ombudsman, Mrs Seex, has asked me to review the file on her behalf. I am a manager in a different team, do not manage Mr Lewis and have had no previous involvement in your complaint. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you. For administrative reasons I am responding, rather than Ms Fleming. Just to keep everything as confusing as we can, lets have as many different contacts as possible shall we. Mrs. Seex, Mrs. K. Sykes, J. Burns and Ms. Fleming.

I am sorry to disappoint you further, as I appreciate how strongly you feel, but I support Mr Lewis' decision to close your complaint. Let me explain why.

Your complaint concerns the way that your Council Tax debt was collected by the Council and bailiffs acting on their behalf.

Mr Lewis' decision was that your complaint was outside the Ombudsman's jurisdiction because you had a right of appeal to the Magistrate's Court. Under the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 you can appeal if you consider that a bailiff has acted illegally or irregularly. In your letter of 9 April 2010 you say that you did appeal to the Magistrate's Court, but your appeal was rejected because it was out of time. I was out of time because I fell for the councils formal complaints procedure taking up months thus playing into their slimy hands. I agree with Mr Lewis that those elements of your complaint relating to whether the bailiff acted illegally or irregularly, remain outside the Ombudsman's jurisdiction, despite the fact that your appeal to the Magistrate's Court is out of time.
In addition, any allegations of fraud by the bailiffs are for the police to deal with, not the Local Government Ombudsman. And what do you suppose the police thought about taking any action?


However, there are elements of your complaint which are not covered by the right of appeal to the Magistrate's Court. I will now consider whether these are matters the Ombudsman should investigate.

The powers of the Local Government Ombudsman are laid out in the Local Government Act 1974. This Act enables the Ombudsman to investigate complaints of maladministration. Maladministration refers to mistakes or errors in the processes and procedures followed by the Council. If there is evidence of maladministration, the Ombudsman must consider whether this has caused any significant injustice to the person making the complaint. Injustice means has the person has suffered in some way because of the errors or mistakes of the Council. If both maladministration and injustice are found, the Ombudsman can recommend a remedy to the Council to put the person complaining back in the position they would have been in, but for the maladministration.

The Council's refusal to accept payment once the debt had passed to the bailiffs

This is not a matter the Ombudsman will consider because you have not been caused any injustice. The Council has a policy that once an account is sent to the bailiffs, all contact about the account should be with the bailiff. It's not good enough to say the council "has a policy" there are rules and regulations they should follow, not just make them up as it suits them. It explained that this was to prevent confusion. However irrespective of the Council's policy, you made the payment of £57 to the Council by internet to clear the council tax you owed and it was accepted. This was therefore no injustice to you. They are not taking into account the stress time etc involved with dealing with these situations. Further more it was only because I took the initiative to pay direct into the councils account that this matter was resolved, the council were being completely obstructive, refusing repeatedly to accept payment.

The Council passed its responsibility to the bailiffs to respond to your first two formal complaints

The decision to ask the bailiffs to respond to your initial complaints was in line with the Council's policies. There is no evidence of maladministration. Are these policies just made up by the council? The reason councils use private bailiffs is so that they can blame them in these situations, but unfortunately for the councils, they have overall responsibility.

The Council stated that it is not reasonable to expect that their bailiffs prove visits to and correspondence left at your property for which they charged fees

This is not an issue the Ombudsman will pursue. You live in an apartment block and access is through a security door and there is no communal post box. Oh so the council and their bailiffs incompetence is my fault because of where I live is it? You say you did not receive letters left by the bailiffs on two occasions they say they visited. There is no realistic way of proving that the letters were or were not left and I would not expect the bailiffs to take other actions to prove visits took place. In the circumstances the Council's stance seems reasonable and the Ombudsman would not achieve anything further by investigating this issue. You didn't really have an answer for that did you lgo, but you are expert at making it sound like you do.

Illegal levy on vehicle

Your email of 8 June 2010 included the text of an article by the Ombudsman which covered complaints similar to your own. In three of these cases levy and van fees were charged for a levy on a car not owned by the debtor. The article says that in these cases the Ombudsman recommended the levy and van fees should be refunded and the council should ensure that bailiffs check ownership of vehicles with DVLA. The text sent to the LGO which is refered to in this paragraph originated from an article written by an employee of the LGO about action taken on illegal levies.

In your case the Council upheld your complaints that the bailiff did not leave a Levy of distress when the levy was completed and did not take reasonable steps to ascertain ownership of the vehicle before the levy took place. However neither of these faults has caused you significant injustice. This is because you have never paid any of the fees associated with the levy of the vehicle and this is the remedy the Ombudsman would normally seek, as outlined above. So you're saying we have to live on our wits where the council and their bailiffs are involved, and your saying it's all right for them to try it on. The fact that I didn't pay the scum their fees means that they didn't try levying illegally does it? I will contact the Council to emphasise that it should ensure bailiffs check ownership of vehicles.

Conclusion

I am sorry that you have not achieved what you hoped for when you complained to the Ombudsman. Having considered all the material on the file, I support the decision to discontinue the investigation. The file on this complaint is now closed and I regret that we cannot correspond with you any further on this matter. This does not affect your ability to make a fresh complaint on a new issue in the future.

In your emails you say that you want to make a complaint about the Local Government Ombudsman. The Ombudsman is independent and our decisions are not subject to review by any other body. If you remain dissatisfied, our decisions can be challenged in the High Court on a point of law (this is known as a 'judicial review'). The time limit for making an application for judicial review is very strict. It must be made promptly and in any event within three months after the grounds to make the claim first arose.

The Court will expect you to comply with the 'pre-action protocol', details of which can be found at www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/43·19.htm. You may wish to take advice, for example from a solicitor, Citizens Advice Bureau or law centre before pursuing legal action.

Yours sincerely
Mrs K Sykes

Assistant Ombudsman

[BAILIFFCHASER]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Best way is if you can pay them off whatever they want. This way you do not get any hassle. then go for them after the charges etc. This way you will not get them harassing you. I know this is a tried and tested formula. If in case the bailiff company goes pear up then you can still sue the council for it.

[David-G1ZQC]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

Seems like a hiding to nothing. These people stick together, (bad for publicity you know).
Individual / independent enquiries still have bosses governing what they do, so don't be fooled by the banner they show.

D.

[LavenderRose]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

OutLawIGo I am lost for words! If youve complained to all those authorities and got nowhere then it just goes to show that government run authorities dont give a damn about the people they are elected to serve. The only thing left would be to write to an MP in the house of commons with your complaints and ask him to take your complaints seriously. You must be so frustrated my heart goes out to you.
Good Luck


LavenderRose :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[outlawlgo]

Re: Suing council for their bailiffs

LavenderRose, I think the MP would be the next step, but if I'd known that all these so called independent organisations such as the LGO and police complaints commission were so corrupt and so obviously "not INDEPENDENT", I would not have wasted so much of my time trying to achieve justice.

There seems to be no indication that the private bailiff (unlawfully collecting for council's) issue is going to be addressed by the government. The police, councils and the legal system will always side with the bailiffs and cover for them.

I think there's no other option than to completely refuse to deal with this bailiff scum, not even speak to them on the phone, let alone through the letter box.

Even if they do have a legal standing, if everyone concerned refused the bailiffs entry and ignored completely their threatening letters, the courts would not be able to cater for the sheer volume of cases. 1,333,206 was the number of cases referred to bailiffs to levy distress for council tax in England alone (2007 - 2008). If these numbers are typical, I can't see the courts having the capacity to prosecute this volume.