Levy on very low value car - CT matter

[HooHarr]

Hello,

have been searching the forum but couldn't find info on this particular situation, so would be very grateful for advice...

Council tax matter, liability order issued for total oustanding from last year, sum approx £1400. Now in hands of Bristow and Sutor.

I've had no contact with the bailiffs at all but they've attended my property a couple of times, leaving hand written letters pushed through the door. They've added excessive fees for these visits but I see from other threads how I can deal with those (have found breakdown of legally permitted fees for CT work, and SAR template etc).

Latest visit they left a "notice of seizure of goods" form, along with an inventory describing my car which is on the drive.

I realise they can take the car, it belongs to me and it's sat out in the open, it's fair game I suppose. However, it's a 21 year old banger which has no MOT and will not start (flat battery and needs the alternator refitting). The car's value is only what it will fetch for scrap, between £50 - £100. There's 6 months tax on it which the bailiff has included on the inventory, that's probably worth £90 on DVLA refund.

Now, I keep the car because it's a very reliable run around, which I can easily and cheaply fix myself when I (hopefully) find another job later in the year. For that reason I'd rather not see it snatched away, but, if he takes it, fair enough, I'll have to take it on the chin and find another when the time comes.

However, my question, with the value of the car being so low, I doubt it will even cover the removal costs let alone dent the outstanding sum. I bet the bailiffs like to charge a pretty penny to attend with a tow truck, remove a car and store it until sale (or delivery to a scrap yard, as in this case).

Is it legitimate for a bailiff to levy on a car, when it will be obvious to him that the value of the car will not even cover the levy costs?

He'll be levying on goods where the net effect of his action is only going to increase the sum owed. He won't get enough to pay the tow truck man (unless he's working VERY cheaply). This would seem to be very dubious practice to me.

How many "bites of the cherry" does a bailiff get when removing goods for a council tax matter? Can he levy on this, then come back and try again later in the year, or, once he's removed goods once, is that his sole chance at distraint done with?

I'm not even sure he'd want to take it. He'll know it's almost worthless and so this could very well be a tactic intended to panic me into crying and wailing and giving him the kids school dinner money. Notice says he's coming back to get it in 5 days, so, I guess we'll see.

I'd appreciate any words of advice or clarification around this subject.

Just for the record, the bailiff has never been in my house, I've signed nothing and nor will I sign anything in future. I understand he has no power to force an entry and I'm being very careful about locking doors and windows etc. Whilst this isn't terribly pleasant I'm not too worked up about it, I know the rest of my stuff is safe and I'm a big fella, not easily intimidated or worried.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sound cavalier, I'm not just trying to dodge paying. I'll pay what's fair when I can, but right now I have no job and no income so we have a "blood from a stone" situation. When I get back on my feet later in the year I can do something about a proper resolution.

Apologies for the length. Thanks if you can help.

[Amy]

Re: Levy on very low value car - CT matter

If a bailiff cannot levy on goods which if and when sold, would raise sufficient revenue towards the debt, then he must return the debt to the council as Nulla Bona.

However, the levy on your car will not be valid unless you have signed a walking possession and/or he has been allowed peaceful entry to your property, which he hasn't been. So you need to get a writing a letter of complaint not only to the bailiff, but also your council and make them sort this out.

[HooHarr]

Re: Levy on very low value car - CT matter

Thanks for your reply Amy.

As the car won't make any contribution to the council tax debt it would seem ridiculous to remove it, and I'm interested to see if he'll bother. Your comment suggests he won't.

If I wanted to protect it from being taken, are their any serious consequences for me if I remove the car myself and park it several miles away? The bailiff has not clamped it, so it would be simple to move it away, but I understood he may have rights over it now as he has in effect "seized" it already with his levy. In practice, is there anything a bailiff can do if he finds a car he's levied on has vanished when he returns?

Your second point doesn't tally with everything else I've been reading, on other forums and websites. Everything else suggests that if a bailiff can get to your car then he can levy on it and remove it. He doesn't need access to the inside of your house, or a walking posession agreement, because the asset is outside in the street and readily accessible to him. Are you sure he's not permitted to levy it without a wpa, or having already obtained peaceful entry?

Thanks again for your comments.

[Amy]

Re: Levy on very low value car - CT matter

As the car won't make any contribution to the council tax debt it would seem ridiculous to remove it, and I'm interested to see if he'll bother. Your comment suggests he won't.

What a bailiff should do in law and what a bailiff actually does are two entirely different things most of the time. If a bailiff returns a debt Nulla Bona then he hasn't earnt any money. He has simply handed the debt back because there is nothing to collect. If he cannot levy on any goods then he cannot charge any fees, let alone inflated ones.

If I wanted to protect it from being taken, are their any serious consequences for me if I remove the car myself and park it several miles away? The bailiff has not clamped it, so it would be simple to move it away, but I understood he may have rights over it now as he has in effect "seized" it already with his levy. In practice, is there anything a bailiff can do if he finds a car he's levied on has vanished when he returns?

Your second point doesn't tally with everything else I've been reading, on other forums and websites. Everything else suggests that if a bailiff can get to your car then he can levy on it and remove it. He doesn't need access to the inside of your house, or a walking posession agreement, because the asset is outside in the street and readily accessible to him. Are you sure he's not permitted to levy it without a wpa, or having already obtained peaceful entry?

This is where the bailiff usually wins. He seizes a car and because it causes the maximum upset and inconvenience, it often results in a payment in full for him. More often than not when a bailiff seizes a vehicle, the debtor will offer to pay immediately - only to find that the fees have increased again.

Technically speaking a bailiff must have a valid and signed walking possession once he has been allowed peaceful entry to a property in order to seize any goods, but as above, the seizing of a car is often the easiest option for a bailiff and as vehicles are usually kept outside of the home, then it is fair game for a bailiff.

If it were me I would move the car, but that is because I believe the levy to be invalid. If the levy were valid then yes, it would be illegal to move the vehicle away because technically it belongs to the bailiff until such time as the debt is paid.

[HooHarr]

Re: Levy on very low value car - CT matter

Okay, thanks for your further comments Amy, they're much appreciated.

[tarbel]

Re: Levy on very low value car - CT matter

register it ar your brothers address