Does losing a court case result in a CCJ even if it is not a registered CCJ?

[i.dan]

We have an issue with our property's insurance, which is a small block of flats.
On renewal the wording of the Insurance provider asked if any parties had received a CCJ.
The fact is that this year a court case (an Injunction application) has been heard between a resident leaseholder and the Freeholder, resulting in a Judgement. The app;lication was denied by the Judge at the hearing. Costs were ordered on all parties.
The 1st party (resident leaseholder) has checked and he does not have a registered CCJ at this time.
It is also likely that the Freeholder (Company Ltd) is the same.
And yet, -
Should they report a CCK to the insurer?
Having reported a CCJ, should they then say it is not a CCJ as it is not registered?
Is any outcome a CCJ anyway? and must be declared as such?

[R0b]

Hi

That's a bit of an ambiguous question.

Historically, a judgment was a final outcome of a dispute whereas an order of the court was generally referred to as something that isn't final. For example if you applied for an interim injunction or an interim charging order on a property. Those lines are now becoming less clear as time moves on.

For the purposes of this scenario, a judgment is defined as a decision made on the day of a final hearing. So strictly speaking, a costs order would be determined as a county court judgment.

The ambiguity is that everyone (including companies) tends to understand a CCJ as meaning to be a judgment that has been registered on your credit file which in turn will impact your ability to obtain credit. It used to be the case that if you pay a CCJ in full within one month it would never be recorded on the register of judgments otherwise the court would send it to the Registry Trust for it to be registered and as soon as it was registered you would find it on your credit file the following month because credit agencies are subscribed to the register. Nowadays I think the rules may have changed so that a CCJ is only registered if enforcement action is taken e.g. bailiffs.

Now if you were asked, have you ever received a CCJ, then the literal answer would be yes. However, you would not be seen as dishonest if you clarified what the insurer was actually asking and responded differently.

If it were me, I would simply ask the question, "do you mean whether I have a County Court Judgment shown on my credit file?" and if the insurer's response to that is "yes" then the answer would be "no" as what you have said is factually true since you don't have it registered on file.

In reality, I do think they mean if you have a registered CCJ because it could affect things like getting insurance on credit over 12 months rather than an annual payment but don't get caught in the trap of answering no to a very broad question like that as insurers will get out of anything to avoid payouts or other obligations. that cost them money.

[PallasAthena]

Insurers are supposed to make clear exactly what information they want to know but this is an example of the sort of question which isn't clear enough.

I would ask them to clarify whether they mean a CCJ for debt. Because the commercial reality is that is mainly what insurers are concerned about.

trying to get an insurer call centre to clarify anything can be hard work though!

[atticus]

Has the court ordered you to pay money? If so, have you paid it?

[i.dan]

Thank you both for the replies. Both very useful and informative. We will try to uncover, if possible what is meant by CCJ in this context.
As an aside, I would have thought cases, or tribunals between Tenant and Freeholder, or vice versa are common enough for insures to deal with? And if so, then as you say the only relevance to them is if there is bad credit?

[i.dan]

Has the court ordered you to pay money? If so, have you paid it?

The court has ordered that costs payments be made bu both parties (The Freeholder Company (20%) and the Tenant (80%))The costs are being paid to the defendants solicitor. Though curiously the 'lender' is referred to as the Defendant (Ltd Company).
The Company has paid its share in full. The Tenant, having failed to pay the first sum within one month of the order has applied to the courts to pay the debt in instalments, which is still being dealt with. The Solicitor has applied to put a Charge on the Tenants property. There is not CCJ registered with the courts or with credit agencies.

For the purpose of what is necessary to be disclosed to the Insurer at this time. Do both parties need to disclose the CCJ. Or is there no need to disclose anything until and if a CCJ is registered as a costs order.

I also wondered how, for the purpose of a Landlord Freeholder obtaining insurance, whether it is even possible to know of the tenants debts. Surely in regard to a property;s insurance the only entity that needs to disclose any CCJ's etc is if the Company itself has one, not the members (unless they are named individually)?

[R0b]

Can you explain what the insurer got to do with a dispute between a freeholder and a tenant? Whether you need to notify the insurer depends on the terms of the contract, and if you fail to notify, then you may be at risk of the insurance becoming void if the insurer finds out. If there is no obligation then you don't need to disclose.

The law on registering judgments can be found under The Register of Judgments, Fines and Orders Regulations 2005. Regulation 8(1) says that a judgment must be registered unless Regulation 9 applies. Reg. 9 says:

Regulation 8(1)(a) does not apply to:-

(c)any judgment, other than a liability order designated under section 33(5) of the Child Support Act 1991, where the hearing was contested, until—

(i)an order is made for payment by instalments following an application by the judgment creditor;

(ii)an application is made for payment by instalments by the judgment debtor;

(iii)the judgment creditor takes any step to enforce the judgment under Part 70 of the 1998 Rules (general rules about enforcement of judgments and orders);

(iv)the judgment creditor applies for an order under Part 71 of the 1998 Rules (orders to obtain information from judgment debtors);

(v)the judgment creditor applies for a certificate of judgment under rule 8 of CCR Order 22 in Schedule 2 to the 1998 Rules;

As above, if the hearing was contested and the trail didn't relate to a liability under under the Child Support Act, a CCJ is not automatically registered unless one of the above criteria is met.

The solicitor applying a charge on the property would be considered enforcement action and falls within Reg. 9(c)(iii) so the CCJ would then be registered. Equally, the same applies under Reg. 9(3)(ii) so in either case the CCJ should be registered following the application/outcome of that application.

[i.dan]

Can you explain what the insurer got to do with a dispute between a freeholder and a tenant? Whether you need to notify the insurer depends on the terms of the contract, and if you fail to notify, then you may be at risk of the insurance becoming void if the insurer finds out. If there is no obligation then you don't need to disclose.

The law on registering judgments can be found under The Register of Judgments, Fines and Orders Regulations 2005. Regulation 8(1) says that a judgment must be registered unless Regulation 9 applies. Reg. 9 says:



As above, if the hearing was contested and the trail didn't relate to a liability under under the Child Support Act, a CCJ is not automatically registered unless one of the above criteria is met.

The solicitor applying a charge on the property would be considered enforcement action and falls within Reg. 9(c)(iii) so the CCJ would then be registered. Equally, the same applies under Reg. 9(3)(ii) so in either case the CCJ should be registered following the application/outcome of that application.

Thank you, that is very helpful. I do not understand from what you have quoted, Is a CCJ registered if 9.c(ii) the debtor applies for payments by instalments. Or does this rule only apply if it effects liability under the Child Support Act?