Executor communication problem

[Unregistered]

Hi
My father died and my sister and I were named executors. As my sister had a long term illness her daughter was also an executor. Father died and my sister and niece became personal representatives for probate and I had my 'power reserved' as I lived at a distance to them. My dads bank account proceeds were transferred to my sister. Probate was granted and the property involved sold, the proceeds paid into a specific account solely for the house proceeds which was transferred to me and my sister.
Before finalizing the estate my sister gave me £2000 on account and £2000 to give to an ex neighbour of my dads in recognition of her help to him. She said she had not finalized the rest of the accounts. My sister then became very ill and passed away.
I presumed she had been liaising with her daughter re the state of the probate administration as her daughter would be responsible on her demise.
After a few months and after organizing for my dads ashes to be buried I contacted my niece and was told there was no money left in the estate. I was concerned as this was not in line with what my sister had told me. I asked to see any accounts and paperwork as my sister said everything was in a folder. My niece said she couldn't find any paperwork.
At the time I did express the concern that perhaps dads money had been subsumed into my sister estate.
I have heard nothing from my niece since. I have written several times and tried phoning but get no reply. I therefore obtained Double Probate and have written to my niece asking her to hand over all the financial records and documents for the estate and for any account my sister held for containing the transferred balance from dads closed bank account. (Which I have learnt from the bank amounted to £24,500.). I have heard nothing.

Dad had no debts. His funeral was prepaid. It therefore seems to me that my niece was incorrect in implying the estate had run out of money and that it is entirely possible that the missing funds have been subsumed into my sisters estate.

If I cannot get a response from my niece can I apply to the court to ask them to hand over the documents so I can try and track the funds or should I ask the court to ask my niece to produce accounts as she has the docu,nets and had been paying the bills and administering the estate after my sister died? I don't really want to get solicitors involved and would rather try to sort this out amicably but feel at a loss as to what to do next for the best.

My sister and I were the only beneficiaries named in the will, but I have since learnt that my sisters share of the house sale went to her grandchildren. Presumably she organized this just before she died.
I would be grateful for any help and advice anyone can give.

[Kati]

Re: Executor communication problem

tagging [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] xx

[Peridot]

Re: Executor communication problem

Hi,

How awful for you all. It must be difficult for your niece too having lost her mum, but the fact remains she was a co-executor (see below as I'm not sure this is the case?) on your father's estate with her mum so is responsible for matters during that time.

So as far as you were aware everything was basically dealt with, collected in etc and the estate accounts and final distribution was the last thing to happen? Has any inheritance tax or other debts and liabilities been paid do you know?

It is probably difficult for you to answer these questions having only recently become involved and from what you say having received none of the information to date. When did your sister pass away? Is your niece still dealing with her funeral arrangements etc or was this some time ago.

So are you now working in tandem with your niece having applied for the double grant. I have assumed that she was named on the original Grant along with your sister? Or was she just helping your sister out? Apologies if I have misunderstood and for making the post even longer but it is important and may help others so I will deal with the situation as if she were not named on the original Grant first.

If this is the case then you will have to do a lot of the leg work again I'm afraid. Did you receive copies of the completed inheritance tax form from your father's estate or do you have no idea whatsoever what assets there were other than the house? It may be a good starting point as accounts etc will have been listed on the form so at least you would have a starting point.

It would then be necessary to contact the financial institutions, HMRC, probate registry to obtain copies of the previous documents filed in order to obtain the original Grant and also to get the closing statements for any bank accounts etc. The conveyancers who dealt with the house sale will be able to provide their completion statement so you have the correct figures that were received from the sale. If this is the case once you have all the information that you are able to obtain, you will be able to compare it to the IHT form that was completed so at least you can identify where things have gone to, been paid out etc. Hopefully it will enable you to create the estate account.

If your niece is named as executor on the first grant then the law requires proper accounts of the administration to be kept and to be submitted to the court when required, so your niece as the acting executor at the time does have a legal duty to finalise the estate administration. I'm sure everyone appreciates that with losing her mother, things may be delayed but she cannot just walk away from her executor duties.

If a mistake has occurred it can be rectified but you do of course require the necessary information to enable the estate accounts to be prepared and the estate finalised.

If she was appointed in the Grant she has become personally liable to the beneficiaries, you and your sister, for any loss occasioned to the estate as a result of any breach of trust in her duties. This breach of duty is known as a devastavit and includes things such as maladministration, negligence or misappropriation of part or all of the estate. Whether she realises this or not I don't know, but maybe pointing out her legal duties and the fact that she can be personally liable for any shortfall etc may prompt her to 'locate' the information. She may of course have inadvertently disposed of the paperwork in her mother's belongings, in which case again I'm afraid it will be a case of getting the info again from the various institutions.

A Court application is possible. It would have to be made to the Court by a beneficiary (yourself in this instance). The Court can demand accounts be provided to them and administer the rest of the estate themselves, if needs be. However, it is expensive taking matters to court and if your belief is that the only amount outstanding would be in the region of £20,000 approx and you and your sister would have received half each of any residuary amount then this would mean taking the matter to Court over approximately £10,000 approx.

If this amount is in the correct ball park of your estimate then I would be cautious about making a Court application bearing in mind the potential costs of pursuing this through the Courts. Of course if you believe there is a considerably larger sum unaccounted for then it may well be worth applying to the Court. I would suggest obtaining at least a free half hour or reduced fee appointment with a lawyer, someone specialising in private client work, probate and contested probate, just to look at the options open to you.

In the meantime, I would suggest a further letter to your niece. I believe she needs to be made aware of her duties as executor and the fact that she remains personally responsible for the estate administration which includes preparation of estate accounts. Maybe suggest that you are content to take on the role of the administration but as requested previously you need all the relevant documentation which they obtained to deal with your father's estate. In the absence of any documentation then she will need to obtain it again (if you wish to push this) but that you would be happy to complete the estate accounts once the information has been sent to you. She needs to be made aware that as the executor she is personally liable to you as a beneficiary and also has duties to comply with in law to complete the estate administration.

Should an application be made to the Court then they will order a common account, which requires the executor to provide an account of the deceased's assets they have received or should have received during the course of the administration. Should the examination of the accounts reveal a devastavit, your niece may well be ordered to replace a loss from their own funds.

Hopefully it will not be necessary for you to contact every financial institution again, but this may become necessary if your niece won't co-operate. When did you last write to her? What action did you say you would take? I assume that you would wish to deal with this all as amicably as possible but point out that you would be perfectly within your rights as a beneficiary to make an application to the Court for this matter to be dealt with, but hope that it can be settled without this step being taken.

As per usual more questions than answers but I have tried to cover a lot of ground here.

[WillPro]

Re: Executor communication problem

Thank you for your help. In response -

There was no inheritance tax on the estate. My sister and I were beneficiaries.

My sister and then niece paid the debts up until my sister's death. My niece said she had paid out nearly a thousand pounds winding up the debts after the sale of the bungalow, for which she had not been paid.

dad died November 2015. His bank accounts were amalgamated and the proceeds transferred to my sister in December 2015.
dads funeral was in January 2016.

Probate was granted 26/4/16.

My sister passed away December 2016 having told me she hadn't managed to complete dads accounts but everything was in a file.

My niece was an executor on the initial probTe application and dealt with some of the administration, but told me in April this year that she did not have my sisters files and only had the files for the house sale and for the money she had spent.

I have obtained copies of the PA1, will, probate form but not the IHT form from HMRC as I didn't know I could get this.

I met my niece and nephew in April 2017 before scattering dads ashes and was told there was no money left. We said this didn't seem possible from what my sister had indicated and that they had no paperwork. I asked if it was possible that the residue might have been inadvertently subsumed into my sisters estate. They said they would try to obtain a copy of the PA1 for me.

Apart from one phone call with my nephew in which he became very rude and unhelpful we have had no contact with him or my niece since.

I have written three times in an attempt to finalize the estate in line with the will and in an amicable manner, including asking for a formal executor/beneficiary meeting.

Last week I wrote and asked for all the paperwork which my niece and nephew must have so that I can proceed with things. I have had no replies to any of them.
the bank confirmed last week the amount transferred to my sister, ie £24,088, which confirms that there should be funds left to pay my nieces outstanding debt and my costs (crematorium etc) and to distribute to me and my sisters estate.

my nephew and niece were granted probate for my sisters estate in May 2017 and are the beneficiaries.

Can I make a claim at this late stage against my sisters estate or should I request the accounts for dads estate via the court with my niece responsible for any liabilities as I do not expect my niece to respond to my last letter or phone call?

Sorry this is so long.

[WillPro]

Re: Executor communication problem

Still not received any reply to my letter asking niece to hand over probate documents or replied to my phone call messages asking her to contact me. I have therefor written to her again asking her to look into the missing money and also to her and my nephew, as executors on my sisters estate where I believe the missing money has been subsumed into, asking them to look into the matter and reimburse my fathers estate.

[Peridot]

Re: Executor communication problem

Hi,
Sorry for the delay in responding. So your niece is named as an executor on the original Grant together with your sister? If this is the case she is potentially personally liable if she has not dealt with the estate correctly. It appears from what you say about the £24,000 approximately that once any other debts, fees etc were taken from the estate then any remaining amount should have been divided between the two of you if the house proceeds have already been dealt with (assuming there were no or few other assets to be realised) Have you asked your niece to transfer £12,000 to you so the matter can be settled?

As I mention, if she is one of the executors, it is her that needs to deal with the collection and distribution of the estate equally between you and your sister. If the estate is a simple one (house and bank account for example) then I wouldn't get too stressed about having estate accounts prepared and finalised. They are not a legal requirement. It is frustrating that you haven't got all the paperwork but if you are certain that all other debts and liabilities have been settled then it appears the only outstanding issue is the remaining legacy you believe is due.

If you believe there are outstanding debts then these do need to be located and dealt with and that is when you as the replacement executor would I'm afraid need to contact any creditors etc to check all accounts are now closed. If the niece is unable to provide receipts demonstrating the amount you believe has been subsumed was actually used to settle debts, funeral expenses etc,, then that amount should be divided between the two beneficiaries and she can be held personally liable if it is not.

It may be worth contacting the niece again and pointing out she could be found personally liable for the outstanding sum and that you are seeking legal advice to claim the amount due from her. Maybe drop the paperwork chase (provided you believe debts etc have been settled) and say you believe this has been an oversight. Once you receive the amount due then things can be finalised? I think you may need to speak to a litigation specialist, maybe in a free half hour appointment just to see what the options are for you before making an application. A letter may be all that is needed without incurring the costs of a court claim?

[WillPro]

Re: Executor communication problem

Hi,
Sorry for the delay in responding. So your niece is named as an executor on the original Grant together with your sister? If this is the case she is potentially personally liable if she has not dealt with the estate correctly. It appears from what you say about the £24,000 approximately that once any other debts, fees etc were taken from the estate then any remaining amount should have been divided between the two of you if the house proceeds have already been dealt with (assuming there were no or few other assets to be realised) Have you asked your niece to transfer £12,000 to you so the matter can be settled?

As I mention, if she is one of the executors, it is her that needs to deal with the collection and distribution of the estate equally between you and your sister. If the estate is a simple one (house and bank account for example) then I wouldn't get too stressed about having estate accounts prepared and finalised. They are not a legal requirement. It is frustrating that you haven't got all the paperwork but if you are certain that all other debts and liabilities have been settled then it appears the only outstanding issue is the remaining legacy you believe is due.

If you believe there are outstanding debts then these do need to be located and dealt with and that is when you as the replacement executor would I'm afraid need to contact any creditors etc to check all accounts are now closed. If the niece is unable to provide receipts demonstrating the amount you believe has been subsumed was actually used to settle debts, funeral expenses etc,, then that amount should be divided between the two beneficiaries and she can be held personally liable if it is not.

It may be worth contacting the niece again and pointing out she could be found personally liable for the outstanding sum and that you are seeking legal advice to claim the amount due from her. Maybe drop the paperwork chase (provided you believe debts etc have been settled) and say you believe this has been an oversight. Once you receive the amount due then things can be finalised? I think you may need to speak to a litigation specialist, maybe in a free half hour appointment just to see what the options are for you before making an application. A letter may be all that is needed without incurring the costs of a court claim?

thank you for the reply.
we have today rung my niece and left a message saying we needed to sort the matter out and executors can be liable for errors and could she contact me.
i then rang my nephew as he was helping my niece and is co personal representative on my sisters estate as it is her estate that we think has had the residue of dads estate paid into. He rang me back and became very agitated saying he didn't know why he was being involved; thought we had been acting atrociously; had had our letters drafted by a solicitor (which we hadn't), vehemently objected to my wife being involved and commenting on matters and said we should send a solicitors letter to my niece and would only deal with us through solicitors now. I tried to calm him down but he was not listening and he hung up.
we don't want to get into involving expensive solicitors unless we really have to so are thinking of applying to the court asking for the accounts to be provided. I don't know if our local solicitor gives a half hour free as they said their fee would be £200 per hour.

am I right in believing that if an error is made by an executor and they pass away then their executors are responsible for righting that error?
Thank you