PSA Finance Voluntary termination

[rani]

Hi there


I have just come across this site and have found it extremely useful already!


I have a Citroen on PCP from PSA finance and the agreement is due to come to an end at the end of October (that is when the balloon payment is due). However, I have already purchased a new car and would like to save myself the two left over monthly repayments.


I contacted PSA and they sent me out some paperwork to sign and return. I have read this thread by [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ment-*UPDATED*


and realise I shouldn't sign that paperwork but should instead send them the template letter. Also, my agreed mileage was 8000 / year and I am already at nearly 26000 (with two months still to go in the contract term).


Has anyone else had any experiences with using these template letters with PSA finance?
Am I liable for excess mileage charges or will I be able to contest them using the provided letters?


Thanks in advance!

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Also, when the template letter says for the company to collect the car in 14 days - does that imply 14 calendar days or 14 working days?

Thanks!

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

and I have sent my initial letter today. Shall I cancel direct debit to them already? Payment is due on 28th of this month - if they try and collect the payment and are unable to, will I risk getting something on my credit file for non payment?

[Kati]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] ... can you look in here please??

[R0b]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

I you have evidence that the letter was sent i.e. proof of postage then you should be fine to cancel your DD providing that your letter states the agreement terminates immediately. If you put a time on it then you should cancel your DD after that date expires. I can't say whether or not they will mark your credit file so you will need to monitor that and if they do then you have the option of taking action against them for breach of data protection.

My guide sets out my views in relation to excess mileage and I repeat what it says in that the CCA specifically excludes breaches of contract (inc. excess mileage) for the purposes of calculating your liability on termination. There was one case which went to court but unfortunately he lost, though he did admit that he never referred to the CCA so the decision could have been different had that been the case. Even so, it was a County Court decision and those decisions are not binding so other judges can make a different ruling if they wish you can read more about it here -> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...light=donverdi

Ultimately, it is a decision for you to make as to whether you contest it or not and thats a risk you take. There is also another court claim that has recently been initiated and is currently ongoing here but is in the early stages -> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...larke-Pls-Help

If your excess mileage is small, it may not be commercially viable for them to pursue you i.e. more money than its worth.

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Hi Rob

Thanks for your insight. I have copied the template provided by you and it says the contract is terminated immediately so I’ll cancel my DD on that basis.

My mileage claim should be less than £500 from my calculations so I am hoping they don’t contest it too much. I have followed the other threads hat you have referred to and am educating myself as I go along.

On what basis is it breach of data protection if they mark my credit file? Are they normally obliged to give me some warnings and ask for me to make payment before they can mark my file?

Thanks!

[R0b]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Principle 4, failing to keep data accurate and up to date

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...le-4-accuracy/

You might want to also look at the ICO guidance below - Principles for the Reporting of Arrears, Arrangements and Defaults at Credit Reference Agencies -> http://www.scoronline.co.uk/sites/de...ment_final.pdf

Page 7 specifically says that:

A default should not be filed:

If the amount outstanding is solely made up of fees or charges

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

So I’ve not heard from PSA - it’s been about a week since I sent the letter. I know the letter was delivered as it was sent via recorded delivery

Shall I contact them or wait to hear from them? How much notice do they need to give me to collect my car?

Thanks!

[R0b]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

The car should be collected within a reasonable time, normally if you haven't heard from them after 14 days then you should look at doing something about it. At the same time there is no harm in giving them a call and to see whats going on.

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

So my car was collected today and the guy collecting it said I had a scratch on my alloys. I had some stuff done to the alloys to get rid of some kerb scrapes and the had two different repair people tell me that the scratches in the middle of they alloy were corrosion and nothing that I did.

He has sent that report into the company and I shall await what they say now. I’ll attach the pic - any opinions on it would be appreciated kindly.

thanks

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Here’s the pic:
http://bit.ly/2w5nMBP

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

So today I received the initial letter from RMS receivables on behalf of PSA stating a charge for excess mileage for £220 (ish). My contract stated 8000 miles a year and I handed it back 2 months early with mileage of 25212. They worked out pro rate mileage and said I was in excess by 3100 (ish) miles.

They have also sought damages for repair on the wing mirror for £22, repair of a dent on the door for £22 and scratch on the alloy for £60.

wing mirror - I hadn't noticed any damage but it is possible that it was there before. I dont have photos of it but they have provided me with one that they took.

door dent - when collected by the logistics company who have sent me their own report - that states that it was a chip less than 10mm. Whereas RMS letter states it was a dent between 10-30. They have sent a photo of the door from an angle which shows the dent but its impossible to work out the extent from that angle. The photos that the logistics company took of the damage were front on and they show no damage. The photo I took shows a little spot but again very hard to work out size from that in my opinion.

Wheel - as i said above, the collection guy had taken a photo of the OSR wheel saying there was a scratch on it. However, in their report, they dont mention the wheel damage at all. They only have the door damage. The letter from RMS states there was damage to the OSF wheel (completely different wheel). This was the wheel I had repaired prior to sending the car back and it only had corrosion damage and no actual scratches. I have a photo (similar to one above) but its upto them whether they interpret that as scratch or not. They guy who I had it repaired from (it was a cash in hand job with no receipt) said they couldn't get me for the corrosion. The photo they have sent me isn't clear enough to see what is what.

What should I do? Should I dispute the whole thing or only the mileage part? I want to fight the wheel damages but dont mind the other two small payments of £22 each.

Please advise.

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Also, the vehicle report sent to me by them gave the car a NAMA (National association of motor auctions) condition rating of 1 (the highest).

The vehicle (and its report) is available to see on the auctioneer's website and the car is due to go to auction next week....

The letter from PSA finance (which is addressed to me but sent with a cover note from RMS receivables which I find a bit odd) states that

"This is a notice served under s86E of the CCA 1074 in relation to your hire purchase agreement number ,,,,, dated ,,,. The terms of the agreeement allow us to charge you for the extra costs we incur if you are in default; that is, if you fail to keep to the agreed terms. You are in default and details of the charged we have added to your account are set out below"

I have read through the originial VT master link and it does not mention section 86E anywhere on it. I dont feel that I have defaulted on my agreement as I have exercised a right within the agreement and their letter seems to mix the CCA with the agreement. Since the sample letters on this site don't address this specific section, how should I incorporate this into them @R0b?

Thanks!

p.s I always thought mine was a PCP lease but it actually says hire purchase agreement on top of the contract.

[rani]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

The contract has a summary box on the second page stating: Termination - your rights which stats that in the event of me exercising my right to end the agreement, I shall return the goods and pay half the total amount (I have paid about £800 extra). It says if I have paid this amount and have taken reasonable care of the goods, I will not have to pay any more.

In the detailed terms and conditions, there is a section called Payments on termination but that says it pursuant to clauses 8.2 and 11.1.

8.2 states that if you are treated as having breached this agreement and fail to remedy the breach within 14 days after receiving notice from us, we will have the right to treat this agreement as repudiated. As a result, we can terminate this agreement etc etc

11.1 Unless terminated under clause 7.4, 8.2 or 11.4, this agreement will terminate automaticaly on the date on which the final payment is due as detailed in the Key financial information.
7.4 The agreement will terminate immediately following a total loss of the vehicle and payment of all sums payable on termination.
11.4 You may end the vehicle element of this agreement by taking the steps set out in the Termination: your rights shows at the front of this agreement. You must then, at your expense, return the vehicle to us along with the registration document, tax disc and MOT certificate. You will then be liable to pay half the total amount payable under the agreement. In the event that the vehicle has exceeded the maximum total mileage, you must pay us excess mileage charge for each mile covered in excess.

[R0b]

Re: PSA Finance Voluntary termination

Hi Rani sorry for not getting back to you, weekends are not always the best time for me to reply.

Well your excess mileage charges are not that great and I've never seen anyone being taken to court as of yet by PSA Finance. RMS receivables are just a debt collector they can't do much other than chase you.

As for the damages, the first thing to note is that where the lender is claiming damages for the car being in an unreasonable condition, it's not based on the cost of the repairs, it is based on the difference of market value between the car in its current state and the value of the car had it been in a reasonable condition. It is up to the lender to prove this not you, but for the sake of arguing it is sometimes easier to simply pay them the costs they are seeking for repairs depending how much it is.

A section 86E notice is a notice of default sums and such a notice is not legally enforceable because the agreement has come to an end and terminated. It is more likely to be an automated letter sent to you, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually written or drafted by RMS Receivables. You should keep an on your credit file, they may apply a default and if they do, then you could have a claim for breach of the Data Protection Act in that they have failed to keep your data accurate. It is also a breach of the ICO's guidance on recording defaults since these alleged charges are made up of fees and charges, not the instalments under the agreement.

The fact that the car has been graded as a Grade 1 rating under NAMA, that would go to show that the vehicle is in a better condition than a reasonable one i.e. only minor repairs would be necessary. You should also compare it to the CAP standard conditions in the VT guide and that will give you an idea of where the car might sit in terms of its condition.

In any case, they shouldn't really be chasing you at all but if you are willing to compromise then you can offer (on the basis of non-admission of fault) to pay £44 to them. I wouldn't be surprised if they reject that and seek the full amount from you so its up to you what you would want to do from there.

Finally, a PCP is a variation of a hire-purchase agreement whereas a lease is something for hire, usually long term. Plenty of people assume a PCP is a lease but it is not and get confused between the two, a PCH is a lease for example.