who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

[distress]

Pavement in front of a premise ( residential or commercial) belongs to whom in London?

If it snowed and someone slipped, one tenth step before coming into the entrance of the premise bumped a knee or broke a hand, from whom one can request compensation? The shop owner, the free holder, the council, the TFL, the company who did the pavement, the MP who should look after its constituents or the prime minister, who should have the interest, the wealth and the health of the nation at his/her heart, or the queen?

[charitynjw]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

Hi distress

Why do you ask? (Ownership is not always the be all & end all).

[distress]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

It was a trick question to test the water...

The real intention is to know what to do with Wilful obstruction of the Highway" letter TFL dishes out to ten thousands of small shop keepers. If they have their way they could soon dish out PCN of £100 each ....

[Kati]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

Wilful obstruction of the Highway

as in ~ http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66/section/137 ??

137
Penalty for wilful obstruction.

1)

If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale].

- - - Updated - - -

have you received one of these tickets [MENTION=8105]distress[/MENTION]??

[distress]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

No, this is new art of voluntary tax paying.... I have received warning letter and 10 days to react, or I will be fined.
Can I post link to a picture for seeing the kind of it ? this is new
"Wilful obstruction" letter

[Kati]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

of course you can ... or email a pic of the letter to me (putting your username in the email) and I'll post it up on here xx

[distress]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

Oh dear, [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION], I was so happy to have found your e-mail address that I have not read the next line.... "But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are." Sorry

[des8]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

Oh well you are lucky not to be prosecuted under Sec 137 of the Highways Act 1980
If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale].

Level 3 fine on standard scale + not exceeding £1000.

[distress]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

it sinks in a little slowly, too slowly, but now I am happy very happy ....I feel happy over the moon too, thanks to @des8's reminder.

Anyway, sarcasm by side, every one in my road, (aherm ... where shops still standing..), chuckle and making joke holding the letter, but seriously TFL could mean real business and is after your money, easy money.

So LB you have a lot of experience helping to guard against PCN and its consequence on residential ground

Soon small shop keeper would come to you, what could you advise?
- they are group of vulnerable creatures like they can not close their door, easy to be put under pressure, lots of asset easy to be taken, easy to be held ransom from local thugs, from asocial and most recently by TFL
- Many can not afford to , otherwise, advertise themselves every day; aren't rich to advertise in newspaper, on radio or TV
- has TFL the right to any pavement, any cobble stone on the front on the side and the back of a premise? I did not see them so clean and so keen to walk around and mark on fault, on uneven, on pot hole etc. the interest to protect disable people, children, pavement/road users is a real concern

Either you takes down take in your adv board
or PCN arrives
--> you refuse to pay
--> debt multiply
-->debt reach serious enough level to get to court
-->you still refuse to pay
-->ccj
-->bailiff/DCA
-->you still refuse to pay
-->IVA
-->Misery???

Al few small shop keepers I could talk to prepare to resist, to refuse to pay that type of PCN, even go to prison to raise the concern, but court wont do that, they could wreck your life yes, but prison in exchange for refusing to pay an PCN!? refusing to repay debt ... there won't be enough room

We're relying on the wise minds here at LB. What do you think small shop keepers could do

[Kati]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

pic ~

[charitynjw]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

You could try applying to your local council for permission.

Example - Barnsley
https://www.barnsley.gov.uk/services...rts-and-signs/

[des8]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

Presumably you are talking about the positioning of A boards and similar outside premises on the pavement.
Some retailers even display their goods outside shop.

Firstly check on the definitive map held by the CC to see where the highway boundaries are. It might be that an area outside your shop is not actually part of the highway.
A highway comprises any public road, track or path even where it is over private property.

Section 115 of the Highways Act 1980 permits the licensing of advertising boards etc. on thehighway.
This is generally considered a "good thing" to prevent haphazard placement of possible obstructions to ensure they do not obstruct or endangerpedestrians; particularly those with impaired vision, using wheelchairs and prams
Have you considered applying to the council for permission to place your advertisement on the pavement?

[distress]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

thank you [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION], I read the pdf and also the one regulation for advertisement and signage for Lambeth, there are planing permission rules for fix board, shop signage etc

Thanks [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] yes those are "A boards and similar outside premises" evening we bring them in,

Those closest advertisement sign temporary/mobile would be estate agent sale board, the document says "no require of consent"

Will look for "definitive map held by the CC to see where the highway boundariesare"

[Kati]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

would this help (I've highlighted the two bits I believe might apply)??

2.5 The national Regulations place conditions that apply to all advertisements.
These are:

• No advertisement is to be displayed without the permission of the owner of the site on which they are displayed (this includes the highway authority, if the sign is to be placed on highway land);
• no advertisement is to be displayed which would obscure, or hinder the interpretation of, official road, rail, waterway or aircraft signs, or otherwise make hazardous the use of these types of transport;
• any advertisement must be maintained in a condition that does not impair the visual amenity of the site;
• any advertisement hoarding or structure is to be kept in a condition which does not endanger the public; and
• if an advertisements is required to be removed, the site must be left in a condition that does not endanger the public or impair visual amenity.

https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/def...nce%202016.pdf

[Kati]

Re: who owns pavement in front of a premise (residential or commercial

2.7There's also this (from the same attachment ~

2.7
(c) Shop signage should:
(i) be accommodated solely within a defined fascia above the façade (onhistoric buildings the height will be dictated by the pilaster/console detailingand on new premises it should not exceed one-fifth of the ground floor height);
(ii) be restricted to one fascia above the shop window and one projecting/hanging sign (not exceeding 600mm x 600mm x 80mm) per elevation and2.4m above the footway;
(iii) the fascia sign height shall be dictated by any prevailing original pilasterdetailing or not noticeably exceed 1/5 of the height of the ground flooraccommodation;
(iv) be illuminated in a discreet and subdued manner – without overlydominant fittings, clutter or cables - lighting should be limited to theadvertisement element (logos and words) and not the full width of the fascia;and
(v) not be excessive, visually discordant, overly large, project excessivelyforward or rise up the façade above the ground floor level.

(my emphasis on the numbers to make it easier to read ) xx