Caveats

[Welsh18]

Hi everyone, how can I find out a caveat number and lodge date? I'm in the process of applying for probate & have received a hand typed letter from my late mothers partner saying hes lodged a caveat but I haven't received any notification & he hadn't responded to requests for the caveat information either? Any help is much appreciated , thank you.

[Kati]

Re: Caveats

tagging [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] ... any ideas??

[des8]

Re: Caveats

Lodging a caveat only requires completion of a form (PA8A https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.j...k/pa8a-eng.pdf ) which doesn't require any reason for the lodgement.

If you apply for probate the court will decline to grant it if a caveat has been lodged.
You then have to obtain withdrawal of the caveat either by agreement with the caveator or by issuing a warning to which the caveator must reply or the caveat lapses

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

Have the Probate Registry informed you they can not give the Grant due to the caveat?
To obtain the Grant you will have to challenge the Caveat (or wait for the 6mths to pass and hope that your mother's partner does not renew the caveat although this is clearly not advisable).
Once you know whether the Caveat has actually been entered at the Probate Registry then you will need to think about challenging it, if an agreement can not be reached with your mother's partner. Can you write to him and ask why he is preventing probate and what his intentions are? I assume that he believes that he has some sort of claim over your mother's estate? It may not be that straight forward if they were not married. He may be getting advice to see if he has a potentially successful claim or shopping around until he finds someone to take the claim on, which may be why he has not responded to you?
Anyway once you are certain he has actually lodged a caveat then it may be necessary to challenge the caveat to allow Probate to be granted. To do this you have to send a “warning” to the Leeds District Probate Registry. There is no fee for the warning. This document will be sent to the person who entered the caveat, and in order for their caveat to remain in place, they will have to enter an “appearance” at the Probate Registry. This is not a physical appearance, but is simply a further document which they will have to send to the probate registry within eight*days of receiving your warning.*
If they do not enter an appearance, their caveat will be removed, and you will be able to apply for a grant.*If they do enter an appearance, then the caveat will remain in place. The only way for it to then be removed is for both you and your opponent to both consent to its removal. If you cannot reach an agreement, then you will have to start court proceedings to have it removed.*
If you cannot come to an agreement with your mother's partner, once you know what he is actually trying to achieve, then it may be necessary for you to obtain some legal advice.

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

Hi there,
thankyou so much, that's incredibly helpful. I rang the probate registry and they confirmed that yes he has indeed placed a caveat against the estate of my late mother. Unfortunately my mother died intestate-she had a will that she never signed or had witnessed so is not valid. It's my belief he is aware of this will and has assumed it's signed & therefore valid as it includes a 10% bequeath to him. It's also my understanding that a caveat isn't appropriate for inheritance act claims. What he has said is that even if there is no will, he will want a settlement under the inheritance act as he lived with her for the last two years of her life. If we don't settle, it will go to full litigation which I don't think he can afford but can I risk it...

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

Hi Welsh18,
Now you know there is a caveat you need to issue the warning to get the caveat removed (hopefully). Caveats are not recommended by the Court as they prevent the Grant being obtained, although there is no way to prevent someone applying one.
As far as any claim is concerned, your mother's partner will have an up hill struggle bearing in mind the length of time they were together and the fact they aren't married. Would you and your siblings be willing to offer an amount of the estate to him?
It may be worth considering whether you would be willing to honour your mother's 'unsigned' will. The cost of going to Court over this, both financially and emotionally will probably far outweigh any legacy you may be able to negotiate with him?
For the moment I would issue the warning and see whether he makes an appearance. If you are in agreement maybe write to him with an offer, if you are so minded to do so and see what happens.
We're here if you need any more pointers.

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

Thankyou so much. Yes I've considered the will at length but I'm so cross at the state of my mums accounts when she died..when she met him she had almost £50,000 in her account & by the time she died had almost £100,000.00 debt! Unfortunately I can only evidence one transaction totalling £11,000. I don't think he can afford to take it to a claim in court but who knows? I would like to think any settlement would include a reduction for the £11,000 - after all, if his claim is on the basis that he wasn't provided for or indeed what was provided was inadequate, that figure must come into it. I'm pretty sure he funded at least one property in Thailand with that money.

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

How worrying for you, and in the space of 2 years! Have you any idea what she spent the money on? I hope she had some enjoyment from the spend. Is she named on the Thai property or any other 'joint' assets for that matter? Horrible as it sounds do keep anything that you find relating to finances, hopefully you won't need them but better to have them on standby so to speak.
As I said he will have an up hill struggle as a 2 year co-habitee! I would say fight all the way, but that would be foolhardy and from the sounds of it the estate can ill afford the cost of the fight. If he has Thai property he can go live there! (sorry a bit flippant maybe but sure you feel the same at this point!)

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

He actually started the relationship around 8 years ago & I think the spending started then, I have some info I think regardjng the property as like you, I thought anything like that was worth holding onto. My solicitor is talking about asking him to produce an income/expenditure & assetts form knowing we have some evidence to see if he will willingly declare the property (although I think there may be more than one!) the inheritance act claim is on the basis he lived with her for the last two years of her life.

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

I can't see that any Court would be sympathetic of a claim from a cohabitee of 2 years. Do keep us posted, hopefully the warning will get him to back off a bit, we'll see.
Here if we can give any more pointers along the way.

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

I hope not, unfortunately, looking at the inheritance act he can certainly make a claim if it goes to court. Can i ask about the warning element of the caveat? From what i can see, he just has to state his interest in any estate & that's that. I find it outrageous he can apply a caveat for £20 & I'm looking at hundreds/thousands in legal advice already.

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

So have you issued a warning yet? He would then have the 8 days to make his appearance. If he doesn't comply with this then the caveat is automatically removed, allowing the Grant of Probate to be made.
I am assuming that all the necessary papers had been lodged with the Probate Registry to allow the Grant to proceed without any further delay? If not I would suggest getting all the ducks in a row so that if he doesn't make an appearance then the Grant will be issued after that 8 days, provided the Probate Registry have the necessary paperwork. Are there any joint accounts? They will need looking into and also establishing if there is any Thai property for example, that your mother's name is on.
Issuing a warning does not cost anything but yes if he makes an appearance then the Grant won't be issued and then it is a case of trying to settle matters without the need for Court proceedings, if possible. I would get some specialist advice on the likelihood of him being successful in his claim. Yes he is able to make a claim but for a 2 year cohabitee situation I do think he will have difficulty claiming any huge sum, particularly when it appears that he has his own property and I assume is financially independent (irrespective of how he has helped your mother spend her money). Once you have some advice I would suggest make an offer if this is recommended but also point out the issues for him in going to Court and the cost which ultimately reduces the estate pot for everyone. If he is unsuccessful then the Courts do have discretion when making costs orders, if it went that far and potentially could order him to pay.
I would set yourselves tight timescales to stick to with regards to any offer that you may make, if advised to do so and if he isn't playing ball then apply to have the caveat removed to force him to make a claim or not, otherwise things could drag on interminably. I would always recommend reaching agreement rather than going to Court if at all possible. It may not be 'fair' but compared to the stress and financial consequences of going to Court, generally it is preferable.
Here if you need some support.
It is a really nasty situation, when all you want to do is deal with your mother's passing and move on.

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

Excellent advice, Thankyou. No I haven't submitted any probate or IHT paperwork as yet, however we now have an offer on my mothers house so will need to start the process. To be honest I've been so devastated it's not been in the forefront of my mind but acknowledge this needs to happen now. Do you know the timescales for probate from sending the form to actually being issued the letters of administration? I agree with your 'ducks in a row' comment & won't issue a caveat warning until I've sent in the paperwork & have an idea on timescales etc.

[Peridot]

Re: Caveats

Hi,
Once all the paperwork is submitted and provided all correct then only a couple of weeks to get the Grant. Obviously the Grant won't be issued with the Caveat in place but the Registry will send you notice of that. You will then need to issue the warning. Fingers crossed he doesn't make appearance and the Caveat will be removed so Grant will be issued, (he has 8 days to make the appearance after he receives the warning).
If he does make the appearance then there will be delay as you'll have to apply for the caveat to be removed if agreement can't be reached. Maybe an agreement could be made that he removes caveat to enable grant and house sale to go ahead provided the administrator promises not to distribute the estate until the issue of his claim is dealt with? Just trying to think of other ways around so that you don't lose the sale, but obviously he'd have to agree to that and it still leaves the issue hanging with regard to what he wants or intends to do ultimately?

[Welsh18]

Re: Caveats

Yes that sounds like a good idea. Frustratingly, although the caveat number & date has been requested & the deadline for this info is today, he has not provided it and also, he now states he had confirmation from a solicitors that they have my mums 'will' in their strong room. I think it must be my mums old one from the 1980s, I remember her mentioning one a few years ago that still had my dad as a beneficiary (even though they were divorced by then!) so I think he's assuming he is named in a will that I've kept from him, what he's not thinking is that I hope there is a will! He has also said if he isn't a beneficiary, or it's not sufficient, he will still 'go' for an inheritance act claim...