Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

Hi All,

Just to update you all on the latest.

I have been in touch with the council tax team and I spoke to a man who advised as follows:

He explained the reason for the two council tax accounts was because the property at which I lived at was in fact declared an HMO. This was for a period between: " December 2015 and 8 May 2016, which covered the period during which I resided at the property. This was why the was a Zero balance for the firs t council tax account. This meant that the Landlord was responsible for the payment of council tax for that property during that time. However, as from 9 May 2016 onwards, the property was no longer declared an HMO and therefore due to the fact that the landlord had submitted a tenancy agreement in my name for the property to the council and they accepted it, this triggered the opening of the second council tax account in my name and therefore I was responsible for council tax from then onwards. This was because they were mislead to believe that I was in fact still residing at the property, when in fact I was not.

After I sent the council my letter on 30 June 2017, they realized that I was not in fact living there. The man confirmed that there had been a council tax liability order granted against me for the period from 15 May 2016 onwards. My letter of 30 June was also passed on to the Housing Benefits team.

The man told me that I should send an email stating that the the property had been declared an HMO between: 2 December 2015 and 8 May 2016, which covers me for that period and then he would nullify the second council tax account and delete it from the system, my understanding here is that he would have the council tax liability order cancelled. He also said he would write to the DWP and tell them to stop the deductions from my benefits and any payments already made would be refunded.

However this isn't the end of the story.

The council HB Department have written to me and told me that there is a substantial amount of money which had been overpaid. They tell me that they have sent the landlord an invoice to repay this.

But the landlord has now emailed me and wants me to get in touch by phone. However, I am not in the mood to talk to them. I suspect that they will try to dupe me into believing that I am responsible for the repayment of the HB over-payment or something. to that effect.

Any advice on what to do now would be appreciated.

Can anyone please give advice on the above. Although what happened yesterday seems to be the end of it, I am a bit skeptical because it all sounds too easy, I get the feeling something isn't right here.

Can anyone offer some advice please?

Thanking you in advance.

[Kati]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

Personally I would not respond ... it sounds like he is trying to get out of it IMO. It was your ex-LL's responsibility to pay the CT while you lived there as the property was classed as a HMO (he should have changed it prior to you moving in if he wanted you to pay) and the council agreed - hence them sending HIM a bill for the overpayment!

If you decide to reply to the LL, keep everything in writing (leave a paper-trail) and admit no liability whatsoever!1
[MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] [MENTION=92682]lgfa92[/MENTION] ??

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

Hi Kati,

Thank you very much for your reply and advice, it is much appreciated.

[lgfa92]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

In a property that was a HMO or a property where the landlord was resident then they remain liable for the council tax as per s6 and s8 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992. The landlord cannot shift the liability, it can only be decided by legislation. This doesn't however stop the landlord for pursuing a civil case against a person.

In respect of Housing Benefit then this will be re-claimed from the landlord if it was paid direct to them - it could be recovered from you but it would need to be demonstrated that you were responsible or the overpayment due to your own actions (not the case here).

Craig

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

In a property that was a HMO or a property where the landlord was resident then they remain liable for the council tax as per s6 and s8 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992. The landlord cannot shift the liability, it can only be decided by legislation. This doesn't however stop the landlord for pursuing a civil case against a person.

In respect of Housing Benefit then this will be re-claimed from the landlord if it was paid direct to them - it could be recovered from you but it would need to be demonstrated that you were responsible or the overpayment due to your own actions (not the case here).

Craig

Thank you for your advice, it is highly appreciated.

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

Hi everyone, just an update...

I have received an email from Croydon Council telling me that they have removed my council tax account and have made the LL responsible for council tax for the property from 9 May 2016 onwards. They said that I am no longer responsible for the council tax. However they haven't mentioned anything about the other council tax account for the period from 2 December 2015 to 8 May 2016.

[lgfa92]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

Hi everyone, just an update...

I have received an email from Croydon Council telling me that they have removed my council tax account and have made the LL responsible for council tax for the property from 9 May 2016 onwards. They said that I am no longer responsible for the council tax. However they haven't mentioned anything about the other council tax account for the period from 2 December 2015 to 8 May 2016.

Next task is probably to check with them but it sounds like they've just continued the HMO designation onwards from the earlier period.

Craig

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

I have an update on my situation...

I received a letter from DWP Benefit office on Monday 7 August 2017 telling me they're still taking money from my benefits for council tax arrears. I got in touch with them and they told me that they have not received any communication from the council to tell them to stop. They said until they do they will not stop the deductions.

I got in touch with the council and they promised to send them a letter to tell them to stop.

Today I received a council tax reminder for an amount of £240.04.

I spoke withe the CT and they told me that they had sent me a CT bill in July 2017 to my current address, but I did not receive it. They informed me that this bill was for the period of between 2 December 2015 and 8 May 2016. I explained that I was told by their colleagues that the property was deemed an HMO for CT purposes and therefore the landlord would have been responsible for CT. They then referred me to the Housing Benefit team. I spoke to a lady but during the conversation she hung up. I phoned back and spoke to a man and I explained that I had received a CT reminder and that I spoke to their colleagues in the CT Team and they referred me to HB. He told me to wait until next week Thursday and they should be in a better position to tell me what is going on.

However, I am having serious doubts about this whole situation, because I had previously been told that I owed no ct and that the landlord was supposed to be billed for the period 2/12/2015 upto 8/5/2016 because it was deemed an HMO, and yet they are now billing me for that period!? I am somewhat getting confused about this situation.

Can anyone please advise me on what I should to do next. I am getting tired of this and it is weighing me down.

I wish to add that the CT reminder states: "You have missed a payment. To avoid additional costs and court action please make payment immediately..." They include a direct debit form.

Comment I have no idea what they're talking about when they say that I "missed a payment" because I have not received any CT Bill and I have not agreed to pay by any CT Bill by installments. I have also checked on their website and the procedure is that they would first send at least one reminder giving seven days to pay and then a final notice with a direct debit form and if I still don't pay also giving me seven days to pay and thereafter a summons would be issued.

The reminder I got also says "Failure to do so would mean that you lose the right to pay by instalments. A summons would then be issued and you would have to costs of £120.00..."

If a court summons is issued, can I attend the court hearing and defend myself or be represented?

I would be really grateful if someone could assist me with this matter. If the matter does end up in court, I would want to defend the matter , probably on the grounds of non liability as the property had been deemed as an HMO for ct tax purposes and therefore the landlord would be liable. But I have no idea how this whole process works because the council website states that I don't have to attend but only have to fill in the arrangement form. Please advise.

[lgfa92]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

I received a letter from DWP Benefit office on Monday 7 August 2017 telling me they're still taking money from my benefits for council tax arrears. I got in touch with them and they told me that they have not received any communication from the council to tell them to stop. They said until they do they will not stop the deductions.

In mitigation DWP were horrendous for dealing with - I dealt with thousands of Attachment of Benefit orders and DWP used to do all sorts of things that they weren't supposed to. Trying to get them to stop an order could be an absolute nightmare at times so it may well have been sent.

I wish to add that the CT reminder states: "You have missed a payment. To avoid additional costs and court action please make payment immediately..." They include a direct debit form.

Comment I have no idea what they're talking about when they say that I "missed a payment" because I have not received any CT Bill and I have not agreed to pay by any CT Bill by installments. I have also checked on their website and the procedure is that they would first send at least one reminder giving seven days to pay and then a final notice with a direct debit form and if I still don't pay also giving me seven days to pay and thereafter a summons would be issued.

There doesn't have to be any agreement from yourself to pay by instalments - a demand notice is issued with a statutory instalment plan in the absence of any other agreed plan.

If a reminder is defaulted on there is no requirement to issue a final notice before the summons - some councils will but it's not required for them to do so (a final notice is only specifically required in cases where they are required to issued it in lieu of a reminder). If the council can demonstrate the demand notice was posted to the last known contact address then it is deemed as good service and it would be up to you to prove non receipt.

Getting the run around from the council can be a pain and can be sole destroying to deal with and try and get a resolution (A potential client of mine related a story last night that was just horrific in the run around he'd been given with his council tax case)

I would be really grateful if someone could assist me with this matter. If the matter does end up in court, I would want to defend the matter , probably on the grounds of non liability as the property had been deemed as an HMO for ct tax purposes and therefore the landlord would be liable. But I have no idea how this whole process works because the council website states that I don't have to attend but only have to fill in the arrangement form. Please advise.

You're out of pretty much out of luck arguing on liability - the court has no powers to take that in to consideration at the matter falls under a valuation tribunal remit.

You can attend and have your say in court but equally the court are tied in what they can do - they may , if you get a magistrate who is willing to, suggest to the council that case be adjourned but they can simply go ahead and issue the order.

lgfa92

[lawman1234]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

In mitigation DWP were horrendous for dealing with - I dealt with thousands of Attachment of Benefit orders and DWP used to do all sorts of things that they weren't supposed to. Trying to get them to stop an order could be an absolute nightmare at times so it may well have been sent.


There doesn't have to be any agreement from yourself to pay by instalments - a demand notice is issued with a statutory instalment plan in the absence of any other agreed plan.

If a reminder is defaulted on there is no requirement to issue a final notice before the summons - some councils will but it's not required for them to do so (a final notice is only specifically required in cases where they are required to issued it in lieu of a reminder). If the council can demonstrate the demand notice was posted to the last known contact address then it is deemed as good service and it would be up to you to prove non receipt.

Getting the run around from the council can be a pain and can be sole destroying to deal with and try and get a resolution (A potential client of mine related a story last night that was just horrific in the run around he'd been given with his council tax case)



You're out of pretty much out of luck arguing on liability - the court has no powers to take that in to consideration at the matter falls under a valuation tribunal remit.

You can attend and have your say in court but equally the court are tied in what they can do - they may , if you get a magistrate who is willing to, suggest to the council that case be adjourned but they can simply go ahead and issue the order.

lgfa92

Hi,can you please advise me on what grounds I would have to defend myself in the event I am summonsed.

What grounds would I have to take my dispute to the valuation office agency and how do I go about taking my dispute to the VOA. Please can you give me some useful info here.

I don't think that the DWP are at fault here, because the council should have told the DWP a long time ago as promised but they failed to do so. Furthermore, the council themselves have previously told me that the property was a HMO for council tax purposes upto 8 May 2016. Therefore I should not be held liable for CT for the period during which I lived at the property. They previously told me this.All of this has been previously stated in earlier posts..

Can you please give me some useful advice on how to go about disputing liability for this ALLEGED CT BILL. can I appeal against the liability for the bill if so, how?

Furthermore, The council have my CURRENT address and this is proven by the fact that they sent the REMINDER to my CURRENT address, so why the hell should they send my CT bill to my OLD address? I don't believe they even sent it at all. If they did then they should PROVE it!

The council have advised me to wait until next Thursday and then to phone them. How do I know they aren't going to issue summons before then?

If I go to the court what do I say? What defence is open to my specific case? Can I appeal against? etc.

In my view it is the council that are making a mess of things, not the DWP. First the council tells me I'm not responsible for CT because the property was an HMO and now they're sending me a CT REMINDER? They claim they received a payment, even if that were true it wasn't from me because i wasn't even aware that a Bill was issued in my name until I received the reminder.

All I want to do here is sort this matter out, If anyone has any useful advice , I would be grateful if you were to share it with me.

Thanking you in advance.

[lgfa92]

Re: Deductions for alleged council tax arrears

You would need to make a liability decision appeal to the valuation tribunal - the details are on the valuation tribunal service website - if the council won't change liability (they may have revised their decision since they spoke to you initially)

I wouldn't go down the 'conspiracy' route with the council - it's easy to take things as personal but the council have better things to do than play games by not issuing demand notices etc. If one has not turned up it's more than likely either been lost in the post or gone to a different address, only the council can confirm which address it was posted to. They should be able to provide proof of bulk postage to the court if needed to show documents were issued, normally it will confirm XX letters printed and XX letters posted.