Probate Power Of Attorney problems

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

*My former Power of Attorneys name and address* for the use and benefit of *My name* limited until further representation is granted

So now it's just your brother and your EX lawyer (until further representation is granted) that are the official administrators? and that is what you are aiming to achieve, removal of your EX lawyer as administrator?

Your brothers lawyer has just been hired to assist with this and is not named as an administrator on the probate form, so therefore ALL she is imo is an adviser, which is not a bad thing in these situations.
So you have spoken to probate office about this? you have expalined about the lawyer you hired as a representative for you and that they are now joint representatives of your mums estate, did they explain about removing an administrator?
As you will have already been told removing an administrator is not easy and could be costly, would it not be easier to burn bridges with the solicitor and get the estate administered.
Both administrators have rules to follow and must do what is best for the beneficiaries, you and your brother.


Am sorry to pester you on this as I know it's a rotten situation.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Enaid, your not pestering me at all. I need to communicate with someone on this matter or I will surely lose my mind. I am so greatful of any reasonable minded person giving input. Yes, you are correct on the score with my brother and the solicitor he hired for the estate. I believe the reason he hired 'She', was that she offered credit in order to take care of funeral expenses. My brother ignored my offer to pay and my uncles offer to pay for funeral expenses and went about railroading matters right from the moment our mother past away. Hence all the present animosity. I have spoken to the Probate office and they kind of suggested one thing and then another thing. But they all said it would cost me only £20 to file the request to change Administrators. The difficulty presently being, filling out the paper work for the probate office. They require a PA1 - Probate application form and a Cap-A5C - HM Revenue & Customs form, to be filled out. The information regarding the estate financial figures they are requiring, is diffucult for me to understand. I'm not sure what is now considered liquidated, and what's an asset, and how the estate lawyer got around paying taxes due to my mother aquiring my fathers estate just the year before her passing or something like that. I'd be fine just removing my former POA from the Grant and letting my brother handle matters as long as he's aware of his liabilities if he should act dishonestly. I'm concerned if things should go ahead as they are, my brother will put a price specifically on the flat he lives in, that is part of the estate, including the back rent he owes the estate, he I believe is lower than it's real value. (The flat has been professionally valued at $32-35,000, however the valuer stated that the value is low due to the building it is situated in being run down, if the property taxes are assessed the flat value is £50,000) Hence he walks away with a steal if a deal and my money is sent to my former POA. Who will no doubt play hard ball.

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

The £20 to file to change Administrators you have stated are you sure you have not mixed that up with a Caveat as that is the amount to issue one.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Sorry I didn't notice your question earlier Enaid. According to the people at the probate office in order to change Administrators, I need to file a PA1 - Probate application form and a Cap-A5C - HM Revenue & Customs form and pay a £20 fee. I asked was that all I needed to pay and they said Yes! £20

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Those are the 2 forms used to apply for probate and the fee to submit them is £215

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inh...representation

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

According to Liverpool probate office, who I have spoken with over half a dozen times with now, here's their phone number 0151 236 8264. I need to fill out two forms a PA1 - Probate application form and a Cap-A5C - HM Revenue & Customs form and pay a £20 fee. I have the greatest repect for you 'Enaid', but I'm stuck between what you are telling me and what the Probate office are telling me. Is the a sneaky fee they are not informing me of?

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Well I doubt I would be right if you have it from the horses mouth, still baffled.
I will be filling those forms in myself in the near future but hopefully I wont hit barriers like you have,

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

You've got me second guesing myself now. I was also quite suprised that it was just £20. But, one person told me to fill one set of forms, then another person told me anotger set of forms, and then another told me to get the original probate form from my solucitor. In all honesty, it seems no one knows what to do other than ask for money.

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

All I can add is those 2 forms are to apply for probate and satisfy any IT issues.
To remove an executor is hard and can be expensive.
Have found nothing personally for an executor to be substituted for a fee of £20 but if that's what you have been told there must be a way, but I have not seen it.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I've followed the link to the probate site and read that applying for probate will cost me £215. However I'm sure three people at the Probate office have told me I would need to pay just $20. This is insane. Or I need to check myself into a phyche unit. I'm going to call them again on the phone tomorrow and record the call. The is already a 'Grant of Probate' however it has my brothers name on it followed by my POA's name, followed by 'For the use and benefit of ***** ***** ***** limited until further representation is granted.

***** ***** ***** = My name

Also the term 'Limited until further representation is granted', is a significant factor in the grant. This is a term the probate officers always point out?

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Also the term 'Limited until further representation is granted', is a significant factor in the grant. This is a term the probate officers always point out?

Yes that is what you are aiming for, limited until you are granted as far as I can understand, but can find nothing on how to get there with the info you have been given

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

It would be nice if we had someone on the forum that might really have a handle on what the term 'Limited until further representation is granted' actually means. Why would the probate office be so quick to point it out. Seemingly it's possibly the reason I'm only being asked for £20 instead of £215 to reprocess the grant. However If the grant is reprocecessed that's just the tip of the iceberg, as it will also need my brothers input and signiture and then every aspect of the estate with my POA's name and my brothers name will need to be changed. This will cost an arm and leg in legal fee's apparently. And who is liable for those fee's me or the estate?

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

So if anyone is interested, I am about to completely loose it. I spoke with a local lawyer a week ago last Friday who was recommended by a friend. When I called into his office, I explained briefly what my matter was, he suggested during our 20 minute conversation that I send him copy's of the correspondence that my brother and I had gone into since Xmas He told me he was personally too busy, and that I should speak with a junior at his firm and that I should come back to his office the following Monday, as his junior only worked Mon, Tue, Wed. He said however he had some reservations taking me on, due to the fact, that I had already hired and fired two solicitors. I went to the office the following Monday and spoke with both solicitors at the same time. They were both quick to point out to me that they had reservations in working for me, because of my past record of firing solicitors. They however indicated that they at a push might be interested in assisting me. The was no mention of the correspondence that he had requested, and I had gotten to him, or my emailed summary of events that he had requested.
The meeting seemed like they were more interested in what they could get out of me and the estate, than how they might professionally assist me. I left the office with them telling me that they were going to make inquiries with the estate solicitor 'She' and find out what the deal was, and give me an estimate as to what they thought it might cost, and the junior solicitor whilst I was there pointed out what her hourly fee's were.
I left the office. The following day, I received an email from the junior solicitor that she suggested I print out and sign. It was a rather generic 'Client care letter' agreement. Along with this CCL was another document summing up what she believed my instructions to be. These instructions were not quite what we had discussed at the solicitors office. She stated in this letter that, I was "prepared to enter into an agreement with your brother which may in turn give him a greater proportion of your late mother’s estate." This was not true! I had told the solicitors that I had given up fighting over the value of the property, and the figure set at my brothers weekly rent, that is 170+ weeks past due. I had come to an agreement with my brother over these figures. So the fight for all intents and purposes was now over. Now all that was needed was to equally divide up the estate. Also including the figures my brother and I had agreed over, as part of the same estate.
My other legal issue being, how might I deal with the Power Of Attorney aspect of the estate. This was seemingly skipped over by the solicitors in our conversation at the office and again skipped over in the juniors letter. I raised the question, they changed the subject.
This was the real reason I was seeking legal guidance and assistance. I replied to the juniors email on Wednesday morning pointing out my above concerns.
I decided later that Wednesday to go see my original POA solicitor and see if we could work things out. After a great deal of struggle, I managed to get an audience with him, and he agreed to assist me again. He told me that when he was made aware by his secretary that I was in his office foyer looking to speak with him, he had phone called the estate solicitor 'She' to find out the details of what was happening with the estate, as he believed the might be a conflict of interest. Evidently everything was okay. We sat in an office and verbally agreed to work together again. He said he would send me a Client care letter and a Terms of engagement letter. I told him he could email them to me. He asked did I still have the same address? I said Yes!
When Friday arrived, I still had not heard from him. I emailed him inquiring as to what was happening. He emailed me right back, informing me that the estate solicitor 'She' had contacted him on Thursday and had informed him that I had given another solicitor instructions. So that's why he hadn't sent any terms to me. I told him that I hadn't instructed anyone, and had merely sought advice from a solicitors on the Monday before meeting him, and was not happy with what they had offered in the way of a contractual agreement. I had signed nothing with anyone. I explained that the solicitor I had spoke with may of just been making an inquiry and that this inquiry was being mistaken for instructions.
He emailed me back saying "Wait for my letter . I am prepared to accept instructions again from you but I am not going into a competition on costs. My costs will depend on time involved and will be recorded and charged accordingly." It's now late Monday, and I have received nothing from him. My brother is chomping at the bit to push for me or my POA to be removed from the estate dealings and become the sole Administrator. And my former POA is fickle, and doesn't inform me if the is an issue. And I still have not gone into a binding agreement with him.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

So it now seems 'She' the estate solicitor, originally instructed by my brother to deal with the estate, has now taken on a new role.
'She' has apparently now taken a step back from beneficiary disputes (Which she was supposed to play a mutual role in) and is now acting for my brother in his capacity, as an Administrator! This I found out, after speaking with another solicitor, who made inquiries with 'She's, law firm.
I don't know what to do, or who to turn to?