Probate Power Of Attorney problems

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Sorry to post this twice. But time is of essence and I'm not sure if this should be considered a new string.
Can someone possibly please explain to me the obligations of a 'Personal Representative' on a 'Grant of Administration'. I'm hitting a lot of wall's, and I'm lawyer shy now, due to a number of poor experiences. I've looked at a number of Youtube vids and Websites, however I'm still not sure, if a Personal Representative has any legal obligation to other members of the estate? And what those obligations are? If my brother were to become the only 'Personal Representative' on the Grant of Representation. Does that mean the Estate is his, to do as he pleases? Or does he still have an obligation to make sure everything is divided equally? Facts and figures he may be called to account for later?

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Hi,
Personal Representatives are those obtaining the Grant. Where no Will they apply for Grant of Letters of Administration which then appoints them the administrator. In a nutshell they have the same obligations and duties as an executor so can be found personally liable if they do not deal with matters in the right way. For PR read Executor (if there's a Will) or Administrator (if no Will).

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Again it's the convoluted terminology being used by the estate solicitor. Here is her email sent to me by one of her secratary's in her name.
"Thank you for your email of the 15th instant. I have forwarded the original Grant of Letters of Administration to the Local District Probate Registry and confirmed that Mr Mt Brother wishes to remain as personal representative on the grant stamp." She doesn't mention how I am to be represented on this document? I've sent her several email inquiries? But I've got nothing back from her.

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Here's a couple of the gov't website details concerning what the exec/administrator must do :-
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death
https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/overview

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Thank you for the links des8, however the is nothing pertaining to an actual 'Personal Representative' other than indicating that they have Executor status. But it's quite unclear as to what this Personal Representative/Executor status is liable for. The are many horror stories of people being cut out of estates due to personal greviences. However an indervidual working at the Probate office indicated that an indervidual mentioned on a 'Grant of Administration', was under an obligation to divide the estate equaly. I'm getting so many mixed signals. :-(

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Hi again,

If a valid Will is in place a Personal Representative is known as an Executor. If there is no Will then the Personal Representative is known as an Administrator.

A Personal Representative is the person responsible for dealing with the deceased’s assets. These assets, including property and financial investments are collectively known as the Estate. The Personal Representative has the legal authority and responsibility to administer the estate and may ultimately be held accountable for any mistakes made.
A Personal Representative can be held personally financially liable for any loss resulting from a breach of their duty, even if the mistake was made in good faith; such as
Failure to pay the debts and liabilities of the deceased.
Failure to pay all Inheritance Tax, Income Tax & Capital Gains Tax due.
Failure to distribute funds to an individual who is successful in their claim against the estate.
Failure to identify, and correctly distribute funds to the beneficiaries; including those initially not known about.

In this situation there being no will the PR (Administrator) must follow the intestacy rules in distributing funds ie if you and your brother are the only children and there is no surviving spouse (as here) then distributing funds equally between the two of you.

Hope this clarifies.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Just to bring everyone up to speed on what has happened. The lawyer 'She' (The estate solicitor hired by my brother to manage the estate) after my email request and calling in at her office in-person, asking for possession of the 'Grant of Administration' document. Explaining to her in the email, that the Grant of Administration was no longer valid, due to one of the signers of the document (My Power Of Attorney) no longer being in my hire. (My requesting for the document being suggested by the people at the Probate office). 'She' Decided to mail the document to the Probate office, rather than give possession of the document to me. She later emailed me, informing me that she would be back in touch as soon as she heard back from the probate office. I have since been in touch with the probate office and they have told me I have to fill out some forms and pay a fee in order to re-process the 'Grant of Administration' and remove my former Power Of Attorneys name and replace his name with mine. One form being 'PA1 Probate application' form and the other form being a 'Cap-A5C HM Revenue & Customs' form. I have also been informed that the probate office will also need my difficult to deal with and obstructing brother to fill out and sign some documents.
I'm sure he is just going to be as difficult as he can be on that score.
It seems also that The PA1 and Cap-A5C forms are extremely difficult to fill out, for one, because of the terminology used on these documents, and for two, because a lot of the information required I have not been made privy too. I really need some help with these forms, however I don't know who to turn to. I have spoke with several solicitors receptionists in town who claimed they would call me back after speaking with their solicitors. However they have not called me back. I'm at a point where I am now having real difficulty trusting anyone. Please help with advice.

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Did you get the guidance notes with the form?
If not PA1 Guidance http://www.probateforms.info/wp-cont...ance-notes.pdf

Cap-A5c https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...T400_Notes.pdf

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Thank you 'Enaid' for the pointer to the guidance notes. However I'm still seemingly at a complete loss. I cannot grasp a lot of the legalize terminology used on the documents. I honestly believe they are designed to completely confuse even the best of us. And that's not a joke.
The guidance notes that 'Enaid' was good enough to post on the forum, pertain to the PA1 form, and the T400 form, as it is, I'm trying to fill out the CAP-A5C, tax form.
I had to phone HM Revenue & Customs and leave a message to have them snail mail the CAP-A5C, tax form to me, as the is no-where on the Internet to download this form. (British tax monies at work). I made a scan and copy of the CAP-A5C form, in case I should fill it out wrong. Here is a link to the unadulterated .pdf copy if anyone can understand it? For starters, "de bonis non?" Why in God's name are the tax office still using an obsolete language? The Romans left Briton in the 5th century or are the documents made for Papal revue? They might as well wrote the whole thing in Greek. I'm lucky in that I have a copy of the original filled out PA1 form that I might be able to copy some of the information over from.
But I'm still lost in a number of other areas. I wish the was someone that I could go to that might assist in the filling out of this form. I have tried some off the local solicitors, however I leave a message with them, or speak with their secretary's who claim they will call me back, and they don't call me back. I am so drained.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx3...w?usp=drivesdk

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I can imagine how you are feeling, these things are not made easy for us at all. I am also sorry the link I gave was of no use.

De bonis non administratis, Latin for "of goods not administered," is a legal term for assets remaining in an estate after the death or removal of the estate administrator. The second administrator is called the administrator de bonis non and distributes the remaining assets.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...nual/ihtm05081

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Thanks again 'Enaid' however still absolutely confused. Even with your help explaining the difference between "De bonis non administratis" and "Administrator de bonis non" meaning that the word Administrator if used as a prefix to the words "De bonis non" means the former administrator, and if used as a suffix means the later Administrator. But in my present reality that might address 1/100 of the UK tax form filling problem. I'm off to crash a family law and arbitration service in person. Wish me luck. :-)

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I do wish you luck and I think you best going face to face with someone who can help you.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I've spoke with a number of law firms and non of them seem to be interested or qualified in handling my predicament. I called the law society and they gave me a couple of solicitors numbers that might be able to help me. I called both of those firms. They first said that they couldn't help me, the second wanted £375.00 before I could communicate with a solicitor and anything might be discussed with me. I dont want to pay £375 pounds only to find out that they cant help me. They are also based physically quite far away from me.
I'm also now running out of money to live on. I've had to pay for flights from the US. Pay for accomodation in the UK, it's all adding up, and it's taking it's toll. I have no idea what to do now, and feel like I'm loosing my mind, and most definitely my inheritance. I'm also starting to get physically ill from dizzy spells from the stress, and wanting to vomit. I honestly think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown. My head is spinning. Sorry if this sounds melodramatic, today after the sheer stress of trying to explain to another solicitor, I started to black out. I know it's the stress that's making me ill. Peridot would you be so kind as to give me the link to the earlier posting you made in reference to the 'Rules of Intestacy' and the obligation of Administrators to divide the estate equally. I really think I need to get help for this nervous breakdown issue before I can do any more. I am drained. I looked for the article Peridot posted but couldn't seem to find it.

[enaid]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I know this wont be helpful but I was just wondering for my own sake really.
As of now is only your brother 'the administrator' or is it still brother and his lawyer?
I just think as an intestate estate you and your brother are both equal inheritors and this is taking far too long and costing far too much in legal fees then I would be prepared to put up with, but that's just me.
If you are happy with the probate figures re the value of the estate then I would let your brother or your brother and solicitor administer it and get your half.
To me all this stress and cost is just not worth it. After all if the estate is not administered properly they can both be in trouble.
The chattels sold off initially by your brother have been accounted for you said, even if not the true value, the money you both are throwing away now could far out weigh that.
Just my thoughts, let them have the headache of form filling, get your entitlement and then if that is not as it should be then go for the jugular.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

'Enaid' as always your advice is golden. The situation is this: My brother hired a solicitor we will call 'She' to assist in the administration of the estate. 'She' is still the estate administrator, that is being instructed by him alone.
I now have no legal assistance, although my former solicitors name is still on the 'Grant of Administration'. The Grant is worded as follows:

--------------
Be it known that *My mothers name* of *My mothers address* died on *Date* domiciled in England and Wales Intestate. AND BE IT FURTHER KNOW that the administration of all the estate which by law devolves to and vests in the personal representative of said deceased was granted by the High Court of Justice on this date to
*My brothers name and address*
and
*My former Power of Attorneys name and address* for the use and benefit of *My name* limited until further representation is granted.
It is herby certified that it appears from information supplied on the application for this Grant that the gross value of the said estate in the United Kingdom amounts to £403,222 and the net value of such an estate amounts to £400,039
*Dated*
Extracted by *'She',The solicitors my brother hired* Administration.
---------------
I'm fine with my brother administering the estate, as the quibling over chattels I also now believe will cost more than they were ever worth in legal fee's. I have voiced this in an email to my brother who seems to be nothing but hostile even after my concessions. It's like I give an inch to move things into an area of reason and he see's a weaknesd wants to take a mile.
My worry is, what is entailed in removing myself or my POA from the administration process, or at least taking a passive role, that would still force my brother into maintaing some aspect of integrity?