eBay problem

[McGinty]

Hi there, My daughter sells some smaller items of furniture on eBay and has had a problem with a customer wanting to return an item. Her terms state clearley that the item should be examined for damage and defects prior to signing for it. She also states that the delivery driver will wait up to 15 minutes whilst this is being done. This is in her contract with the carrier. The customer received the chair and only examined the packaging at the point of delivery. The next day she emailed my daughter saying she wanted the item collected for repair or renewal as it had been damaged. She had signed for it in good condition. eBay are insisting that my daughter take it back for repair. She is willing to repair it free of charge but the cost of the collection and redelivery will cost £50. She has asked that the customer foot the bill for this as she did not adhere to her terms. eBay are siding with the customer saying '

Buyers appreciate excellent customer service, so by providing great experiences you're making eBay a great place to shop. This is crucial for repeat business and overall selling success.' They are ignoring the fact that the customer signed for the goods in good condition and of course could have damaged the item themselves when opening it. Does she have to obey eBays ruling on this? If she is forced to take this back for repair can she instigate proceedings at County Court against the customer or perhaps even eBay? This is not the first time this has happened, indeed she has had four of these in the last six months or so amounting to a loss of £200 or thereabouts. I would appreciate any advice on this please as she is now thinking of stopping selling on eBay altogether which is a shame as she is doing fairly well but can't afford to sustain losses like this. Thank you Mc

[Arcadian]

Re: eBay problem

Ebay will always side with the buyer in this type of case. She's unlikely to win, unfortunately.

What does the carrier say say about the alleged damage?

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

The carrier has provided her with a signed clear pod so there is no way to claim from them.

[Arcadian]

Re: eBay problem

Hmmm.

Ive had some success by contacting PayPal directly and explaining to them what has happened. However that only works when they've raised the claim with PayPal.

If the the case has been opened with eBay then you've no chance of them paying any attention to what you say.

[des8]

Re: eBay problem

Besides which of course your daughter might be sailing quite close to the wind.
A delivery note (as the name suggests) indicates merely that the product has been delivered and not that they have been accepted. If there is a problem with the goods,the customer may still reject them, particularly if they haven’t examined them as per your daughters conditions. These conditions might be seen as a limitation on the customers statutory rights The law states that you should have reasonable opportunity to examine the goods for yourself, so they could argue that ‘there and then’ was not reasonable .

I have assumed the goods were sold on a "buy it now" basis and not an auction.

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

The goods were indeed sold on a buy it now basis. The customer is advised they must examine the goods prior to signing for them and the driver will wait up to 15 minutes whilst this is done. Her terms clearly state that by signing for the goods this is an acceptance that they have been received in good condition. This is clearly stated in all her listings and she does send an email at the point of booking the delivery in with the customer reiterating her terms so the customer is made well aware of the fact that when they sign for the goods it is an acceptance they have been received in good condition. She goes that extra step to make sure the customer understands that. There doesn't seem much point in having such terms as eBay seem to totally ignore them. There is another point here as the customer accepted the item in good condition and she now wants to return it for either a free reair or an exchange, under distance selling regulations the item should be returned to the seller in its original condition, which of course it isn't. My daughter cannot claim from the carriers due to the customer not following clear instructions in relation to the delivery.

[wales01man]

Re: eBay problem

Good luck fighting Ebay they tend to side with buyers and expect the seller to pay return costs its your word against the buyer

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

In this case not really as my daughter has a document stating the goods were received in good condition. Regardless of what eBay say. She has just informed me she had a chat with customer services which totally contradicts what they are now saying in this case! I have a copied and pasted a partial extract of this chat below.

11:44:21 UTC Jomarie

That is the best proof that you can provide to us, if your buyer will claim a damaged item.

11:48:02 UTC Jomarie

Are you still with me? I want to make sure we haven't lost connection.

11:48:15 UTC

We can always supply this information as the carriers insist on getting a signature. So, You are telling me that if we have this document and the item is signed for in good condition and a case is subsequently opened for a damaged item we would not have t

11:48:51 UTC

to refund and if negative feedback was left then we could have this removed?

11:49:35 UTC Jomarie

If you can provide this documents, you are not oblige to accept the return request and contact us back after 8 days. We will then review the issue and your terms and condition and take appropriate action.

11:50:04 UTC Jomarie

If your buyer will leave a negative feedback, feel free to contact us back and we will be glad to assist you.

11:50:25 UTC Jomarie

Rest assured that you have the option to appeal to this feedback and have it remove on your account.

11:52:11 UTC Jomarie

Are you still with me? I want to make sure we haven't lost connection.

11:52:16 UTC

Thank you for clarifying this point. We are always afraid to refuse a return in this situation as the customer would open a return case and leave negative feedback.

11:52:35 UTC Jomarie

I certainly understand that.

11:53:22 UTC Jomarie

Technically, if you can provide a documents from the courier that your buyer received an item in good condition, it means that your buyer failed to follow you terms and condition or they are the one who damaged the item.

11:53:57 UTC Jomarie

Other than this issue, is there anything else that I can help you?

11:55:15 UTC

Jomarie you have been very helpful indeed and I must thank for your help with this matter. You are an absolute star! Jim

11:55:34 UTC Jomarie

Thank you. My pleasure to assist you.

11:55:38 UTC Jomarie

Other than this issue, is there anything else that I can help you?

11:56:09 UTC

No I am happy with your response and I hope you have a good day.

11:56:26 UTC Jomarie

It's been a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for using eBay Live Help, again my name is Jomarie and have a great day ahead.

11:56:28 UTC Jomarie

Bye, Take care and wish you all the best on eBay.

[Arcadian]

Re: eBay problem

Let hope they stick to it. It's not unknown for eBay cs staff to contradict themselves, and generally get stuff wrong...

[enaid]

Re: eBay problem

.........

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

Well, as I think we had guessed eBay has favoured the customer. Surprise! Surprise! I have been talking to my daughter on this and we feel aggrieved by their decision so I was wonder if perhaps their decision should be tested at County Court. Would love some advice on this if we have any legal people on here? There is not much point in having terms clearly stated within an eBay listing if eBay and customers simply ignore them.

[Arcadian]

Re: eBay problem

Well, as I think we had guessed eBay has favoured the customer. Surprise! Surprise! I have been talking to my daughter on this and we feel aggrieved by their decision so I was wonder if perhaps their decision should be tested at County Court. Would love some advice on this if we have any legal people on here? There is not much point in having terms clearly stated within an eBay listing if eBay and customers simply ignore them.

Sadly I already expected eBay to favour the buyer, it's what they do.
The question is, do eBay's own terms and conditions countermand any contractual agreement made by terms stated within the listing by the seller?

I remember some years ago I sold a small 1970s TV on eBay, as I knew no carrier would cover damage to an item which contained glass I stated that if a buyer insisted on having the item sent, it would have to be at their own risk.

Almost immediately the buyer complained to me to me that the item had been smashed "to bits", which seemed rather unlikely. They didn't send any photos or state what they expected me to do about it, but they did get very angry when I reminded them of the terms in the listing.

Fortunately they never escalated it to a claim, nor even left feedback as far as I recall. I know I would have lost an eBay or PayPal case. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to have to go to court over it.

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

Thank you. This is now the fourth case in 7 months my daughter has lost money on. What is the point of having any terms within the listings if eBay constantly ignore them just so the customer has a 'happy buying experience'. I will wait to see if anyone on here has had any court cases, won or lost, against eBay. There may well be compelling reaosns for not taking this to court but it is something we have in mind.

[R0b]

Re: eBay problem

The problem you have with the terms of 15 minutes to inspect the goods on delivery is that it may be considered an unfair term as [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] has pointed out. Customers should be offered a reasonable time to inspect the goods and not be pressured into a limited time. What about if someone signs for the delivery on the customer's behalf, can you expect the person on behalf of the customer to have authority to inspect and accept that the goods are in the condition as they should be?

It all depends on the circumstances and it would really be up to a court to decide whether 15 minutes is an unreasonable time to inspect the goods on delivery of furniture. Do the goods come wrapped up or can they be inspected immediately? One thing that may side in your daughter's favour is that any unusual or onerous terms should be brought to the customer's attention and if it is stated in the order prominently and clearly, and then your daughter sends them a reminder that the driver will wait 15 minutes to allow reasonable inspection of the goods prior to signing then a judge may think that is a sufficient period of time to reasonably inspect and then reject the goods if they are not happy with them.

I don't know what Ebay's terms and conditions are but have you checked them to see if there is anything specific that a business or customer has to provide such as evidence of damage or any explanation as to what terms prevail in the event of a dispute whether its the business' or if Ebay has set terms?

You say there is an arrangement with the courier that they will wait 15 minutes but has your daughter considered asking the courier drivers to take photographs of the goods on delivery to prove the condition of the furniture at the time? Your daughter can also take photos prior to handing over to the courier to compare and that will provide further evidence of the condition of the goods.

Although a delivery note is generally a note which confirms delivery, there is nothing wrong with putting additional information on there such as a box for condition of the goods or damages/defects and further information which states (in bold) that by signing the delivery note they confirm that they have inspected the goods and the condition has been accepted.

The more your daughter goes out of her way to give customers an opportunity to inspect the goods the better chance she would have if it went to court. Whether she would be successful is another story but if the customer has been referred to on a number of occasions to inspect the goods and yet they didn't then they can hardly blame anyone but themselves.

[McGinty]

Re: eBay problem

The biggest problem she faces is that eBay always come down on the customers side regardless. A customer simply has to say that the item is not as described(i.e. Damaged) and that is enough for eBay. They cover themselves in their terms stating that members have to agree to be bound by their rules. Common sense goes out of the window at times. An American company can come to the UK and ignore the regulations already in place under distance selling regulations. In other words,'this is our club and our rules-regardless'