Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign?

[Buddy16]

Hi All,

I am hoping that someone can give me some advise regarding this. My Dad passed away suddenly over 17 months ago and after a lot of hassle from his partner, who he named as executor, and a long drawn out process with probate not being applied for until 9 months after his death, probate has finally issued 3 weeks ago. I am the main beneficiary in his will and his only surviving child and next of kin as my mother passed away over 23 years ago.
The issue is that his partner who has been difficult every step of the way, is the named executor and although her solicitor has contacted her to get the withdrawal papers signed by her in order to release my fathers funds and to settle the estate, the executor claims that she has been in hospital since June! This has been her tactic many times in the past when she does not want to deal with something, she claims to be in the hospital therefore absolved of any responsibility in her mind!
Both myself and my solicitor felt that she could pull this stunt again once the probate issued and low and behold she told her solicitor she is still in hospital. According to her solicitor, she told her she would send the paperwork to her in hospital to be signed to which she received an email stating that she would be out of hospital this week and will come in to the office.
As far as I can see, she is not in hospital at all and just wants to avoid signing the paperwork so that I cannot access my inheritance. Her solicitor has told my solicitor that if she does not show up within a week to sign the paperwork that she will have her son come in to bring the paperwork to her.
This has dragged on so long now, I have not been able to grieve properly plus this is not what my father would have wanted. I have a family to support and we are literally living from month to month at the moment, just holding on for this to come through.
My solicitor feels that we should sit tight and that the executors solicitor has promised her she will send the documents to the hospital if she doesnt show up shortly or have the son come in to collect documents. I am getting increasingly anxious that she will just drag this out longer and longer. Can she do this? My feeling is that I want to give some sort of ultimatum to force her to sign within a certain time frame, would this be advisable or can I even do this? What happens if she is actually ill and claims that she cannot sign the paperwork?
Help....going out of my mind with worry!

[des8]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi and welcome.

Sorry to hear of your problems, but at least it does seem her solicitor is trying to push things along.

Unfortunately there is very little you can do.
As a beneficiary You could write to the executor asking for an account of the administration of the estate.
If you are unhappy with the answer (if you get one!) you could apply to te court for her removal.
However this is difficult to obtain as you would need to prove serious misbehaviour.
You might be able to show that her physical or mental illness, indicated by prolonged hospitalisation shows she is unable to perform her duties.
There is no guarantee of success and such action might well become expensive if defended by the executor and doubly so if you use a solicitor

However you might like to discuss the possibility with your solicitors, with a view to having them write to her solicitor raising this as a possibility as a means of encouraging her to get her finger out!

I can't think of any other solution, although others here might have other ideas

[Buddy16]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi Des8,
Thanks so much for your quick reply, it is really appreciated. Yes, at this stage I am trying to limit both time and expense. Perhaps a letter raising this as a possibility might encourage her to stop her games! My solicitor feels we should sit tight for the moment, easier said than done of course especially as I know she is dragging things on purposefully. I think I would feel more at ease if I knew that say by mid February it would all be sorted out and I could move on, but it has dragged on so long now and I am very anxious that she could drag it on indefinitely. Surely there must be some sort of time limit for executors to get everything wrapped up?
Thanks again for your reply, it has helped me to have a focus and clear idea of my next step.

[Peridot]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi Buddy16,
It is really tough but I would be grateful that she has got a solicitor to act on her behalf. At least they will chivvy her and hopefully keep things plodding on. As Des8 suggested there is a way to remove an executor but it would be time consuming and the cost of applying for this would also be taken from the estate so reducing what is available to beneficiaries in the long run.
I would take your solicitors advise at this stage and sit tight for the moment. Once the forms have been signed things should move quite quickly, gathering in the assets. However before the estate is finalised the executor will need to settle any outstanding tax issues and get clearance from HMRC so it may be a little time yet.
All the best and hopefully things will keep moving toward a conclusion.

[des8]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

There is no time limit for executors to settle an estate.
A complicated estate may take years to finalise, althoug 18 months for a simple estate is IMO stretching it a bit.

As Peridot advices, hang on in there.

[Buddy16]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Thanks Des8 and Peridot for your replies and information. Its not a complicated estate as far as I can see, cash in the bank and a property or two. My father made his last will over 10 years ago and made his then partner executor of his estate. He also left his property to her with the exception of a share in the family home to me. The family home was since sold without my knowledge at the time ( my mother died when I was 18 and in her will she tried to secure the family home for myself and my brother, since deceased, by stating that the family home was not to be sold without both of our consent). My father was Italian and my mother was concerned he may sell up and move back to Italy once she had passed.
When my fathers will came to light, we considered contesting it as the property that I was to have a share in had been sold since, and following some back and forth between the solicitors, the executor made an offer of giving me my share of the proceeds of the sale of the property out of my Dads estate. We made this agreement on the basis that I would receive my share and on this basis would not contest the will. I am his next of kin and only surviving child. My father never married his partner, thankfully, although once he died she constantly repeated how close she was to marrying him etc etc.
To be honest, she was never completely stable, and my father met her at a very low point in his life. She had nothing when she met my father and he moved her into the family home very quickly. He was glad of the company and I was happy for him to not be alone after my mothers death. However she is very unpredictable and prone to episodes of being "ill" or " in hospital" when she has to deal with anything. She tried to leave my father in the morgue, skip the country and return home on a flight ( my father passed in Tenerife) without finalising anything, but evidently became "ill" and could not fly. She is a nightmare for all concerned to deal with including her own solicitor.
My worry now is that she could go back on our agreement, can she do this at this stage? Does the fact that probate has issued on the basis that I get my share stop her from going back on the agreement at all?
Apologies for the long winded message, but my nerves are gone with this at this point. I have 3 kids to provide for, in arrears on my mortgage, have moved country within the last year to give them a better chance at life, better education etc and have just been scraping by month by month, until I receive my inheritance. Its difficult to think that my father has given the power and responsibility of executor to someone so incapable and also that what both my parents worked so hard for could all go to someone who really just reaped the benefits throughout the years. I'm hanging in and trying to be patient, but it doesn't help me to not worry that she may just decided to go back on the agreement and then I will need to go through the courts, delaying everything again.

[des8]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

What a nightmare situation for you.

IMO, if she was to ignore the agreement (presumably in writing and witnessed?) you would be able to pursue the beneficiaries for your share and have cause for action against her for your additional costs.

Interested to have [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] comment

[Buddy16]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Thanks for your reply. Yes, in writing via her solicitor. Hopefully she is only dragging her feet and it will be sorted soon. It was to be expected I suppose given the history of how she has conducted herself, nothing would surprise me, I could write a book!
From attempting to have my father buried at the foot of a Spanish mountain without consulting me in order to avail of a free funeral ( Spanish authorities cover the funeral costs in the case of organ donation, which I consented to, provided the burial takes place in Spain. Something I was unaware of until the Director of the morgue told me) to then attempting to board a plane home, leaving my father in the morgue without any arrangements made to then wanting to have my father cremated and split in three - one part for her, one part to go to Italy and one part for me!! Consulate got involved and I eventually got him home for burial in the family plot with my mother and brother. You could not make it up!

[Buddy16]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi All,

I hope you are all having a lovely Christmas break. Having had a bit of time to reflect over the situation as detailed above, I have a few more questions that I wonder if someone could clear up for me or offer some advise?

So far my solicitor has still not heard back from the executors solicitor regarding having the paperwork signed and sent in to the bank for release of funds, this is despite the executors solicitor " promising" my solicitor that if her client had not shown up to sign the paperwork in her office she would either send them off to the hospital she is supposedly in or contact her son to have him pick up the papers.

I am starting to wonder now whether we have the full picture here at all.....my gut feeling all along has been that the executor would try to get away with not giving me any of my inheritance and I am starting to feel that this may be correct and that she may be trying to drag out signing the paperwork for release of funds until six months after probate has issued....probate was issued in Ireland end of November, thats where my father lived prior to moving to Tenerife, and the rules as I understand it there are that you cannot contest the will if six months have passed since issue of probate.

When my father died, my solicitor suggested that we would contest the will on the basis that I had not been provided for adequately given the estate,as his only surviving child and next of kin. However, the executor then made an offer via her solicitor that she would honour my fathers will ( he left me a share in the value of the family home, but it was sold after his will was made thereby making that part of the will invalid....as explained by my solicitor) and give me my share, provided that I did not contest the will. On my solicitors advise I agreed to this, and a letter to this effect was sent to the executor via my solicitor ( I did not sign anything however).

Now I am wondering firstly, whether by making this agreement was the executor fully aware that to contest the will I would most likely receive a bigger inheritance so it would be a good deal for her. Also when applying for probate would she legally have to list my fathers full estate, including all cash, bank accounts, insurance policies and property etc, including any assets and bank accounts he may have held in Tenerife?

My father lived in Tenerife for many years before deciding to move back to Ireland and passed away before making the move, he obviously had a bank account there etc. Does she not have to declare that? All that was listed was his Irish bank account and one property.
I also cant believe that the executor who was my fathers partner is living on thin air and she would not have a means for an income. She still stands to get some cash from the estate, so it would be in her best interest to sign the paperwork quickly, doesnt have a job as she is a pensioner and would not have any means to maintain herself unless she has already received something from my fathers estate. i.e insurance payout

So my questions are:

Would the executor have to list all assets even those in Tenerife in order to apply for probate?
Could she easily hide some of his bank accounts in Tenerife and access them as his partner on providing the death cert without probate?
Can I now decide to contest the will given that she is dragging her feet in releasing funds?
What would you suggest my next step should be?

I will be talking to my solicitor in January but would like to get my head straight first on what my options might be. I feel that my solicitor has been a little too patient with them and also a bit naive in what assets my father may have had ( my father was a waiter but bought and sold property at the right time).

I feel that at this point things have dragged on so long ( over 18 months) that I may as well have contested the will and that perhaps we need to make it clear to the executor that if she does not get her act together and sign the paperwork within a set period of time, I will go ahead and contest the will.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long winded query, so many little details to the backstory.

[Peridot]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi Buddy, I hope that you had some time out over the Christmas break?
I wasn't aware that your father had property in Tenerife so this may be why things are slow. I am not a specialist in the laws around property held there, for example whether the Grant has to be registered there or whether a different Grant is also required in order to deal with the assets in Tenerife, but this may well be why there is a delay.
In relation to the obtaining of the Grant in the UK, yes all the assets that your father owned need to be declared, including any abroad. They would also have to be valued, which no doubt you can appreciate may take some time when the property and some assets are out of the country.
The executors are under a duty to deal with all the tax, assets etc and also to ensure that the estate is finalised correctly.
There is a six month time limit from the date of the grant of probate, before the executor can gain protection from being personally liable for any claims against the estate, (provided they have taken all necessary steps to deal with the estate correctly). Bearing in mind the situation, this may well be what the solicitor has advised your father's partner to do. Any claim against the estate becomes time barred after that 6 month limit (except in special circumstances). On the other hand you have six months from the grant in which to bring a claim. I would point out again however the cost of bringing a claim and the fact that the estate would be liable for those costs in the event of a successful outcome, thereby reducing the size of the estate available for distribution in any event.
I am surprised there has not been any written agreement as yet with regard to the distribution of the estate. Did the Will indicate that you would receive a share of his house (at the time of writing) or did it indicate that any replacement property would also be included?
With regard to bank accounts it may be that your father did not have an account in Tenerife, he could operate with UK accounts but again I am not au fait with the Tenerife rules for expats there. If the accounts were in the UK in your father's sole name once they have received the death certificate they would be frozen until they have sight of the Grant and the executors instructions to release the funds, unless they are smaller sums eg below £20k, where the executor may be able to sign an indemnity for the bank and they would release the funds to the executor. However, the executor is then personally liable for those monies and the only sums that should be paid from the assets would be for example. funeral costs, tax due, benefit repayments and other debts, together with solicitors fees. If the accounts were joint accounts they will automatically be transferred to your father's partner's name and she could access them as they pass to her by survivorship, so although declared as part of your father's estate for tax purposes they would not be distributed as they pass to the survivor of them.
Whether your father's partner could access any accounts in Tenerife that she is not named on ie they were not joint accounts and passing to her automatically, I am afraid I could not say but she would still be liable for the sums as far as the estate is concerned with regard to the distribution etc.
From what you say it appears that you have until May, being 6 months after Grant of Probate was made (Nov 2016) in which to bring a claim and also from the executors point of view in which to wait for any potential claims.
From her solicitors point of view and bearing in mind the issues that have arisen already it is most likely that they have advised the executor to wait the 6 months before distributing the assets, in case any claim is forthcoming. I appreciate this doesn't help, but they will also be advising your father's partner on the most sensible way to deal with the estate to ensure that her duties as executor are complied with.
I anticipate that the initial delay in applying for the Grant would be due to obtaining the valuations for any foreign assets.
At this stage and being aware there is foreign property, in addition to English/Welsh assets I would still recommend sitting tight but would suggest that if possible you get a breakdown of the assets that were declared in order to deal with obtaining the Grant of Probate. Your solicitor can ask for this from the executor's solicitor. Be aware however that each time you see the solicitor or ask them to speak to the executors solicitor you are incurring costs. If you can get a copy of the Grant (this can be done yourself via the Probate Registry for a fee of about £12 I believe. Probably still cheaper that asking the solicitor to request it!) The Grant will indicate the value of the assets in the estate, gross and net so you would have a better idea of what you are dealing with. It will not list the assets, you would need a copy of the inheritance tax forms to establish this, or an assets and liabilities schedule. These later options would have top be via the executor's solicitor, but would provide a full breakdown, rather than guessing what the figure on the Grant is made up of.
Did your solicitor believe that you would more than likely be successful in a claim against the estate? Making a claim is not always straightforward and there are never any guarantees you would achieve what you would hope for so I would take your solicitors advice on this.
Speak to your solicitor about whether a claim would be more appropriate. This decision would be more sensibly made once you know of the actual values of the assets.
I think it would be helpful to obtain a breakdown of the assets declared for Probate so that you know exactly what amounts you are potentially dealing with. This will be relevant in deciding whether it is worth considering a claim, bearing in mind the costs of doing so.
I hope this helps you identify the areas you need to speak to your solicitor about.
Peridot

[des8]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi there.
Thrown a bit of a googly ! Ireland = N.Ireland or Eire?

," he obviously had a bank account there (Tenerife)"...... Why? He could have had a drawing arrangement.
What proof that he had property in Tenerife?

"the executor who was my fathers partner is living on thin air and she would not have a means for an income" and "she is a pensioner "........ pensioners generally are in receipt of a pension & possibly pension credit and other benefits


Contesting the will is easier said than done!
You will find it an expensive stressful procedure, without any guarantee of success.
IMO you should seriously consider your solicitors pragmatic advice to accept the settlement offered.
Certainly ensure your solicitor is not dragging his feet, but probate was only granted 5 weeks ago, so it is still early days although your father passed sometime ago

[Buddy16]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi Peridot,
Thanks for your detailed reply, it is very helpful. Yes, I managed to have some head space from it all over the Christmas break, but not enough as you can gather!
Basically, my father wrote his will in 2006 and at the time he was living in our family home. When my mother passed in 1993 when I was 18, she had it written in her will that the family home was not to be sold without my permission and my brothers permission ( since deceased). My father sold the family home in 2007/2008 without my knowledge. His will only mentioned my share in the family home and did not make any mention of this transferring to a subsequent property. He then went on to purchase a property in Tenerife with the proceeds,( mortgage was fully paid at that stage) however from what I can gather now the remainder was deposited in an Irish bank account ( this is the only bank account listed on the assets as detailed for revenue and tax purposes when they applied for probate). My father also had two other properties in Ireland which he leased out. Somewhere along the way he sold one of these ( I don't know where funds from this went or if there was still an outstanding mortgage on it). About 7 months before his death, he told me that he had sold the property in Tenerife and had put a deposit on a property in Dublin as he was no longer happy living there and had planned on moving back permanently. He rented a house in Tenerife whilst paperwork went through etc. I don't know how far along he got in the process before his death. Basically the funds released from the sale of the Tenerife property were in my opinion going to the purchase of the Dublin property. I dont know where this money has gone as it has not been disclosed, thats why I was questioning whether all assets and bank accounts including those in Tenerife would have been listed when they applied for probate. The paperwork I saw only listed one bank account ( the funds in it would not add up to the value of the property sold in Tenerife) and one property ( not the new one).

Yes, my solicitor did feel we had a very good chance with a claim given the will, however she was hesitant due to the stress involved and the length of the process. I have had a lot of financial difficulty over the last number of years, ran my own company which due to the recession in Ireland we could not continue and have moved my young family for a better life and a fresh start here. My solicitor is aware that I am in huge need of my inheritance asap, I have mortgage arrears and we are basically surviving week to week at this point having not envisaged it dragging out so long. I would happily accept the offer that has been made to me if it was dealt with quickly here in , however I dont trust my fathers partner ( she has a history of dishonesty and has even been known to forge my signature on documents going back years) and I just dont want to discover when its too late that I have in fact been stitched up.
Though it does put my mind at rest knowing that legally she would have to declare all assets including those in Tenerife.
Is there any way that she could get away with not declaring some of the assets?
Is there anything that I can do about the fact that the family home was sold without my permission or knowledge as per my mothers will? or does that fact just go by the wayside as it was my father who would have owned the property following my mothers death and as he is no longer with us?
Yes, your answers really do help to clear my head somewhat and give me an idea of what to focus on when discussing with my solicitor. I will contact the probate office to obtain a copy of the grant. Thanks for the tips regarding the fees I may be incurring also.

[Peridot]

Re: Can executor delay signing bank withdrawal papers? What can I do to make her sign

Hi Buddy,
Is the Will made in England/Wales? From your posts it appears that the Will may not be governed by England/Wales laws but Ireland, in addition there are Tenerife assets to deal with.
With regard to your mother's wishes concerning the house, this will depend on how this was indicated in her Will, for example whether the property was put in a trust etc. This is more complicated than at first intimated and I would strongly recommend taking your solicitors advice on the next steps, particularly bearing in mind the possible jurisdictional issues (which laws are governing the Will). I am not an expert in other jurisdictions so you need to get the advice specific to the laws governing the Will. Hopefully you have some pointers to discuss with your solicitor when you meet. This is not going to be a straightforward quick administration of the estate of your late father I am afraid, but wishing you all the best.
Peridot