Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

[The_IMF]

Hi All,

First time poster on here, I didn't know this forum existed until I googled for hours and stumbled upon here. I hope this is the right place to put this question and hope someone can help me out here.

Apologies for the long story about to come...

Just over a month ago I bought a car on eBay. The seller was stated as being from Kings Lynn and so I was planning to go up with my neighbour and bring it back. When I won the auction, however, the seller told me that they had moved to Manchester and they needed money asap as they had urgent debts that needed to be paid. Manchester is too far for me to bother my neighbour with so I would have to arrange other transport (I'm in Essex).

I asked them to supply me proof which was the following:
- Copy of the v5
- Picture of a bank statement addressed to their new address
- Copy of their license
- Picture of them in front of the car holding up today's date.

They supplied the information and so I agreed to give a £1,000 deposit via bank transfer and would give the rest on collection.

I arranged a transport for the car but 8 hours before the collection time, the seller called me up and said the car had been stolen and that they'd give me my money back asap.

They started giving a lot of attitude when I called them up again to ask when I'd get my money and sent me a text saying that the more I contact them, the longer it will take them to sort this out. So I left it for a night.

The next day I text asking for the money and they replied they'd do it that day. Towards the end of the day, I had received nothing in my account. I asked for the money again and then they claimed that they had transferred me the money and that I was trying to scam them for another £1,000!!! I asked to send proof that they sent the money and they then claimed that I probably stole the car and to speak to their lawyers!

I contacted the police who told me that the car "is of no interest" to them which I think translates to "has not been reported stolen". They told me to contact action fraud which I did and they started a case for me but at the same time pointed me to this Which article http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...k-after-a-scam and told me to contact my bank/building society to get my money back.

I contacted my building society who after 5 days told me that they can't attempt to get the money back as it was the wrong type of scam!!! Is this correct? Should I write a complaint here as per Which's instructions?

I started a case with money claim after my building society refused to help and the defendant has not even responded to it so have had to request a judgement today. Is my best option to escalate to the High Court and get Enforcement agents involved?

Would appreciate any advice as I'm sure you can understand how stressful it can be when someone steals £1,000 of your money especially this close to Christmas!!

Thanks for your time.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Hmmm tricky, it could be a full on scam, or it could be someone who has got into poop and decided to try it on with you. I'll ask [MENTION=7]Tools[/MENTION] later on if there's similar others about.

As the bank have said it's the 'wrong type of scam' could indicate the account does actually belong to the right person. Usually in ebay car scams the account is in some random name. And this....

I asked them to supply me proof which was the following:
- Copy of the v5
- Picture of a bank statement addressed to their new address
- Copy of their license
- Picture of them in front of the car holding up today's date.

.....is quite unusual - however I suspect easily forged. Did they email these evidences to you?

Did you bring the claim at their given Manchester address ?

You can, once you have obtained default judgment, apply for a warrant of control - this will have costs attached to it ( £70 I think - could be £100 now), so if you can do any digging to find out if the seller does actually live at that address that might be an idea first. And then iIs the bailiff going to find anything at their address to enable them to recover the money ? A Judgment doesn't necessarily mean you'll get paid, and they, if they exist, could apply to pay monthly at an affordable amount.

I'll ask Tools to look in later on anyway as it's far more his area of expertise than mine.

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Thanks for the quick response!

Hmmm tricky, it could be a full on scam, or it could be someone who has got into poop and decided to try it on with you. I'll ask @Tools later on if there's similar others about.

As the bank have said it's the 'wrong type of scam' could indicate the account does actually belong to the right person. Usually in ebay car scams the account is in some random name. And this....

.....is quite unusual - however I suspect easily forged. Did they email these evidences to you?

Did you bring the claim at their given Manchester address ?

So the evidence that they (husband and wife) gave was sent via email. The email was sent from a mobile device so pictures were taken on a mobile device. The pictures all definitely look legit, the picture of them standing in front of the car is taken outside their house. I checked google streetview for the address that they gave me and the streetview picture looks exactly like where they took the picture from (both in the auction and the one they sent me via email). I also found them both on Facebook (and state Manchester as their address), the husband has made a recent post a week ago with a huge grin on his face as he's working on the actual engine of the car that was supposedly stolen. The v5 picture had the previous Kings Lynn address but the names all matched up with everything else.

The reason I usually ask for that much evidence is to prevent myself from getting scammed as I have bought cars from distance before and requested this stuff and not had a problem. I guess these jokers think they're above the law.

My biggest concern really was that they are Lithuanian and the driving license is Lithuanian. It's possible that they're not permanent residents of this country and could possibly be running this scam on a lot of people before they flee the country with their ill gotten gains. (Sorry - don't mean any offence to Lithuanians in particular, just noting that they are possibly not permanent UK residents).

Claim was against their Manchester address.

The numbers I have for both of them have me blocked from my personal phone but I called withheld number and they rang and they picked up so I guess they haven't dumped their phones at least.

You can, once you have obtained default judgment, apply for a warrant of control - this will have costs attached to it ( £70 I think - could be £100 now), so if you can do any digging to find out if the seller does actually live at that address that might be an idea first. And then iIs the bailiff going to find anything at their address to enable them to recover the money ? A Judgment doesn't necessarily mean you'll get paid, and they, if they exist, could apply to pay monthly at an affordable amount.

I'll ask Tools to look in later on anyway as it's far more his area of expertise than mine.

So I've noticed that the seller is still active on eBay so have sent messages to people they've recently bought stuff from in the hope that one of the other sellers will listen to my plea and tell me the eBay sellers address! They're still registered at Kings Lynn on eBay so eBay probably still has their old address but the people they're buying stuff from must have their latest address. I am semi confident that the address is correct because of street view but who knows, they could have moved by now or given their neighbours address.

I've been reading that I can pay £66 once the judgement has been served to escalate it to High Court and then can get HCEO involved which one of my friends told me would be the better route to take, but I'm not sure which is why I'm here really!

HCEO turn up without warning. If they're warned - they could just move, that's what I'm thinking?

I'm not a malicious person, but I have been having daydreams of enforcement officers turning up and taking the car off them plus more to cover costs. I've even been reading reviews to see which company's enforcement officers are the biggest "insert profanity" that can collect from an address in Manchester - I guess the feelings of anger, disappointment (in myself for trusting these clowns) and the stress they've caused has made me totally detest this couple.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Hi,

may be worth checking to see if there is any outstanding finance on the car (just google and there are various companies offering it, costs approx £10) as if there is HCEO will not be able to take it.

Which address does the V5 show? There may be an offence if they haven't updated it with their new address

Just for info HCEO send out a 7 day warning letter too.

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Hi,

may be worth checking to see if there is any outstanding finance on the car (just google and there are various companies offering it, costs approx £10) as if there is HCEO will not be able to take it.

Which address does the V5 show? There may be an offence if they haven't updated it with their new address

Just for info HCEO send out a 7 day warning letter too.

For some reason I was under the impression that they don't send letters - probably been watching too much "can't pay, we'll take it away" when the debtors scream that they didn't receive a letter.

The V5 shows the Kings Lynn address. I did an MOT/Road Tax check on it and the car has a valid MOT but there is no record of it having any road tax. Also, I did a car text check on it which said no finance no write off etc.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

I've had experience of using HCEO to recover money owed and it is definitely not anything like you see on tv. In my case the debtors just refused to answer the door, I thought they would clamp the cars to encourage them to pay before they took it away to be auctioned and that didn't happen, various reasons given, one being HCEO didn't think it would raise enough at auction (which we disagreed but they made the decision to reject, they also rejected the debtors offer of a payment plan without consultation) HCEO visited 3 times in total and there we had to pay the £90 abortive fee. If you are going to use them do your research.

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

I've had experience of using HCEO to recover money owed and it is definitely not anything like you see on tv. In my case the debtors just refused to answer the door, I thought they would clamp the cars to encourage them to pay before they took it away to be auctioned and that didn't happen, various reasons given, one being HCEO didn't think it would raise enough at auction (which we disagreed but they made the decision to reject, they also rejected the debtors offer of a payment plan without consultation) HCEO visited 3 times in total and there we had to pay the £90 abortive fee. If you are going to use them do your research.

Great! Seems like the last hope I had may be futile. :tinysmile_cry_t:

Is there anything else I could try?

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Wasn't trying to put a downer on it but wanted you to be fully aware before spending your money on it like we did. It may be that you choose the right HCEO and you get a result, ours wasn't very good and if I'd done more research I would have known not to use them, won't say who but definitely don't believe what you see on tv

If they are working you can put an attachment to earnings order on (this again costs and gets added to their debt) but the court will decide if they are earning enough to pay

There's also a third party debt order which freezes the money in their bank accounts, they don't know that's happening until it's happened to stop them withdrawing any money (again there's a fee) you need to time it right as it only applies to money in the bank at the time it was frozen.

It is so frustrating and upsetting, we tied ourselves in knots trying to get our money back (ours is a serial offender and knows all the tricks of the trade), fingers crossed once yours gets all the claim stuff through they pay up.

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Wasn't trying to put a downer on it but wanted you to be fully aware before spending your money on it like we did. It may be that you choose the right HCEO and you get a result, ours wasn't very good and if I'd done more research I would have known not to use them, won't say who but definitely don't believe what you see on tv

If they are working you can put an attachment to earnings order on (this again costs and gets added to their debt) but the court will decide if they are earning enough to pay

There's also a third party debt order which freezes the money in their bank accounts, they don't know that's happening until it's happened to stop them withdrawing any money (again there's a fee) you need to time it right as it only applies to money in the bank at the time it was frozen.

It is so frustrating and upsetting, we tied ourselves in knots trying to get our money back (ours is a serial offender and knows all the tricks of the trade), fingers crossed once yours gets all the claim stuff through they pay up.

Judging by my research, it seems like the wife works as a cleaner cash in hand and the husband works as a cash in hand mechanic. There's no point in me asking for their earnings.

Freezing the bank account however... that may be a good option. If I choose to freeze the accounts and there's nothing in there, can I still try the bailiffs?

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

You could try an order to obtain information first (this costs £50) and they have to attend court and be questioned on their incomings and outgoings along with details of any bank accounts they hold and what's in them, this should help if you are considering the 3rd party debt order. Keep an eye on what they're selling on eBay too. Isn't there any method of redress from them?

You can try any subscribed method of enforcement (simultaneously if you want) for 6 years after judgement but it all costs you money

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

You could try an order to obtain information first (this costs £50) and they have to attend court and be questioned on their incomings and outgoings along with details of any bank accounts they hold and what's in them, this should help if you are considering the 3rd party debt order. Keep an eye on what they're selling on eBay too. Isn't there any method of redress from them?

You can try any subscribed method of enforcement (simultaneously if you want) for 6 years after judgement but it all costs you money

Hmmm... such a sticky situation. I know he gets paid cash in hand so technically they earn nothing. If someone gets paid cash in hand, do they still put it in the bank? Probably not I'd think.

I might go for the HCEO first and then try to freeze their accounts if that doesn't work. At least I know the husbands bank and account details.

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Search for HCEO or bailiffs on here and if there aren't recommendations there is definitely advice on who to avoid (wish I'd seen it before choosing)

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Search for HCEO or bailiffs on here and if there aren't recommendations there is definitely advice on who to avoid (wish I'd seen it before choosing)

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Thanks for the advice!

A few days ago, I asked a friend who lives in Manchester to drive by the property for me and see if the "stolen" car was there. Last night he had time to drive past and the car was sat outside the house of the address they gave me so I'm fairly confident the address is correct now.

I notice everyone saying those "can't pay we'll take it away" bailiffs are rubbish - I had no intention of using them anyway!

[Jojo71]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Have you updated your action fraud report to let them know where the 'stolen' car is?

[The_IMF]

Re: Advice for money lost to eBay scammer

Have you updated your action fraud report to let them know where the 'stolen' car is?

Thanks for the reminder - I just gave them a call and they said that I already told them I suspected they still had the car but will note it down.

I don't have any hopes of them actually doing anything about this. The lady on the phone told me the cops only really get involved if the same people have done the same thing to several people or if the scam is very very high value but thanked me for reporting them to Action Fraud. Apparently the police don't have the time or resources to deal with first time "low value" scammers.

I find it quite odd that stealing a £50 jacket from a shop can get you arrested but scamming someone out of a grand isn't worthy of anything.

The other day I got pulled over by the police while driving my friends car that I have borrowed for the time being. The car has light tints and only allows 55% of the light through the front side windows when the legal limit is 70%. I was told by the officer that I'm going to get a fine through the post and possible further prosecution if they deem fit for driving a "dangerous" car. So this is a better use of police time is it? They have enough time and money to prosecute people over ridiculous things like that but a scammer who takes someones money is free to do so without any effort by the police. But I forget, prosecuting motorists earns the police more money so it makes sense that that would be the priority for them!!

I'm not expecting the police to get my money back or prosecute them but at least give them a caution or something!! It's no wonder that scams like this are on the rise.

Sorry for the rant, just calling Action Fraud didn't leave me in a happy place.