What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

[Merc1988]

Took our classic Merc to Germany - for a holiday and to have specialist repairs at our own cost. Because of the amount of work needed to be done we have had to leave the car there - unexpectedly longer than we thought - renewed the car insurance on return as it was due to run out. Now the insurance company will not honour their 90 European travel policy as they say we have not remained with the car! We are not seeking any costs from the insurance company - our choice to have renewal/repair work done - all due to age and nothing else. Now we have a major dilemma as we are not covered to drive it back home once all work is completed! No idea how to solve this legal dilemma -'cannot even put the car into short term SORN. - as its not in the uk at the moment. Any ideas on how to resolve this? Be very grateful for some pointers please. Thank you.

[des8]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Hi and welcome.

Could you possibly advise name of insurance company and post up a copy of the policy, or if online give us a link?

When you say "will not honour their... policy" have you tried to make a claim which they have declined or are they saying cover has been withdrawn?
If the latter, how did they know you had "not remained with the car" (whatever that phrase might mean!)

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Thank you for your response. My husbands car is insured through Andrew Flux. We have made no claim on the insurance company, but what my husband was told yesterday is that the car will not be covered as it is in Germany and we are not there with the car, as we are at home in the uk for the 6 weeks while it is being restored and various specialist parts renewed. There is a 90 day allowance for travel to Europe with the policy. It now also seems that my husband was not informed when he took out the policy that he "has to have permission" to take the car out of our garage at home and drive it anywhere! This he found while reading the small print only last night. Sorry to say this is all very confusing and complicated. The car had insurance with a different company when we travelled out to Germany, as permitted under their policy, but he renewed with a different company on our return a couple of weeks ago when the old insurance ran out. Bottom line is we are afraid, as it was indicated, that the present company may or will cancel the policy as their terms have not been met by us. If so what we need to know is can we get an insurance in the uk while our car remains in a German garage until we pick it up and drive it home again at the end of its repair work.

[des8]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

You say it is confusing...... that is why I would like to see the actual policy wordings before commenting.

Often I have heard people are "advised" or "told" something by intermediaries which is incorrect, and here you are posting what your husband has been told!
I'm sorry but Chinese whispers comes to mind, and although that might not be the case, I would prefer to check the wording myself.

Note that if you have insurance in uk you automatically have 90 day minimum cover in Europe (I'll have to look up the relevant directive and is a reason for seeing for myself how the insurers are attempting to negate the law!)

Was last year's policy placed through Flux?
If so did they recommend the change of insurer at renewal, or was a change sought by your husband
If so did they draw your husband's attention to the differences in cover?

I see no legal reason why you should not be able to obtain cover for your vehicle whilst it is in Germany, although certain underwriters might be wary.


My interest has been sparked because of many years in insurance, and two (British) classics in the garage!

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Ok, many thanks again. You'll have to bear with this silver surfer tho on how to get a copy of the docs to you.

previous insurer was Saga, but husband decided to change as they would only cover the scrap value of the car. With some expensive restoration going on its value has/will increase, hence the reason for change to Flux.

I'm curious at automatic 90 day Europe cover as some insurance companies offer as little as 25 days! And I will apologise in advance if any info I have imparted is part of the Chinese Whisper scenario- it's coming to me 2nd hand and from what I heard of telephone convo on loudspeaker when my husband was talking to Flux yesterday.

Much Appreciate your help - can you give recommendations if needed - seeing as you have classic cars yourself???

[Kati]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

You'll have to bear with this silver surfer tho on how to get a copy of the docs to you.

If you can get pics of them, you can email them to me (kati@legalbeagles.info) and I'll redact then post them up here for [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] to look at xx

[Kati]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

tagging [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] xx

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Many thanks Kati for sorting out the attachments, much appreciated

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

To des8 - for info. Merc schedule that Kati has forwarded - was the "2nd" of the schedules received by my husband. First one had several "relevant" pages not included - like giving notice of travel abroad/green card and garage scenario - this was sent by em - and on that basis without restrictions did my husband accept the insurance cover. 2nd final schedule was sent by post - this is the one you will see now. Apologies again, a bit piecemeal as I glean more info from my beloved! Bear with us please - we are seniors so it takes a while!

[des8]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Got the documents, thanks [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION]..
Family arriving shortly so will be looking at it in detail tonight/tomorrow a.m. so please be patient!!

As a start I note the Certificate (page2) confirms the policy meets the compulsory minimum coverage required in each EC country and section Eleven of the policy allows full cover to be extended for 90 days.
Haven't got time to examine exclusions yet,


And as for being a silver surfer (and your not alone) it took me ages to work out how to tag people
Just seen post 9 Thanks

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Enjoy family visit - and trust me I have oodles of patience. Just very grateful for advice - and being marginally savvy to an extent with where to look for that advice on the Internet - but not yet into tagging - as the grandkids do to me on Facebook - sigh - more to learn! Btw - car is a right hand drive uk registered, in case there are any queries on that. Thanks again and look forward as and when to hearing from you.

[des8]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

To get things straight:
Your Merc was insured comprehensively by SAGA, when you drove it to Germany for restoration.
You returned to uk, leaving vehicle with restorers.
SAGA policy expires, so you approached FLUX for an insurance quote on basis of a classic car policy.
Limited mileage classic car policy bought with effect from 26th September 2019.

On what date were policy documents received?

When negotiating with FLUX prior to purchasing policy, were they advised vehicle was undergoing restoration in Germany?
Were they aware this was your first classic car insurance (if it was)?

Did they warn you of the limitations of a classic car policy?
Limitations such as 1) minimal cover when abroad
2) restriction of cover if vehicle not placed in locked garage o/night when within 800m of home,( if proposal stated vehicle normally kept garaged)
3)no cover while your car is with a member of the motor trade for servicing or repair, or on their premises

Section 11 of the wording is interesting, in that it says " We will extend Your cover" for overseas use, but doesn't seem to require prior advice to the insurers.


Going back to post 1
You have minimum compulsory cover required by law to bring your vehicle home.(reverse page of certificate of insurance)
FLUX are saying you do not have full comprehensive cover (the 90 day extension).
I would dispute that on the basis of the policy wording sec 11 (which is not perfectly clear on the need, if any, to pre advise the insurer)

From the info available I cannot see what terms you have failed to meet which would give the insurers the right to cancel.
On the other hand you have 14 days from receipt of policy documents in which to cancel at pro rata rates.

[Merc1988]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

Many thanks again for your time and trouble. Ok answer to all in first para is yes.

policy docs (x2) received, but only in the first instance by husband accessing Flux website on 20th Sept. and printing them off. Then final(2nd) schedule documents followed up by post, arrived around 21/22 Sept - letter was dated 20th - but he can't recall exact date of arrival. For info - Agent actually wanted my husband to pay for the policy at the outset when he called them and before seeing any documents.

Flux were not advised car was in Germany, and my husband did not mention this was his first classic car insurance - he was not aware to mention that or where the car was at the time.

He was most definitely not warned of any limitations - was only asked where the car was "normally" kept - and his response - garaged at home. He also stated that the car would only be used under limited mileage.

I agree that the policy wording under section 11 does not state in any way that he has to inform them of taking the car to Europe - so they moved the goalposts with the limitations - once they "posted" the actual final schedule to him. His culpa for not delving into it all again on receipt of the 2nd final schedule - however 1st schedule he received did not contain the limitations, so rightly or wrongly assumed posted schedule was the same. Agent he spoke to - that prompted my accessing Legal Beagles - told my husband on the phone that not only did he require permission but that he also needed to have a green card to drive in Europe!

My husband's view, and I agree, is that he cancels this nightmare of a policy - tho am I right in thinking we have basically until tomorrow to cancel the policy - if it is 14 days from the date on the documents - ie letter dated 20 Sept - or is the 14 days from date of end of old policy and start of new - 26 Sept? Do understand we will of course have to pay pro rata - although it's given us nothing but grief!

Much appreciate your views and advice on all of this - many thanks from a pair of silver surfers.

[Kati]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

tagging [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] xx

[des8]

Re: What to do if your car is Europe and insurance runs out

It seems to me you have been dealing with someone who has never read (properly that is ) an insurance policy, or really understands what it is.

As far as I can see (and I'm not wearing my spectacles at the moment!) there is nowhere in the paperwork you posted, any reference to having to advise the insurers about going abroad.
And the green card hasn't been required for many European countries for years!

You have 14 days from receipt of documents to cancel policy without penalty.

You could dispute them on the basis that the documentation originally sent you is the basis of the contract.
If they want to change it you could claim breach of contract.
If they want to cancel because they have issued wrong wording, again it is breach of contract.

However to be pragmatic it would (as you suggest) be easier and more certain to cancel the policy with FLUX and obtain cover which suits you better with an alternative insurer.

As an aside, I think that a broker who masquerades as an expert in a particular field of insurance should make sure his staff deal with the public professionally and ensure the client is fully aware of the limitations of the cover on offer. Because of the limitations my MG which is a daily driver, is covered by a standard comp policy.