Replacment Clutch Failure

[fistandantilus]

Hi,

I need some advice please on a failed clutch which was purchased and installed 2.5 years ago. It has been making some noise for several months gradually getting louder until it is now obvious and a mechanic friend has said it is due to the clutch bearing failure (which was replaced as part of the clutch kit). The car has done less than £20K miles and I would expect a clutch to last at least 4x this (the original lasted £90K and my other car is still going after £180K).

I would ordinarily chase a supplier and not give in until they provide a replacement - I am aware of SOGA and have used it to my advantage (fairly) for many years. However, It is important to note that the clutch was purchased and then fitted by separate companies which unfortunately gives rise to my issue. The failed part is roughly £40 of the total £450 clutch cost, £300 of it being labour provided by the other supplier!

So my question is about consequential loss - I expect the parts supplier to replace the £40 failed part but what about the £300 cost of installing it? Do I have any case to get the parts supplier to cover it? After all, it is "fair" and clear that my loss is £340 due to their faulty item.

Thanks in advance.

[des8]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Are you sure the release bearing itself was faulty and just not adjusted properly?
You have at least two vehicles and possibly/ probably other drivers who have access to the car.
Is it possible they ride the clutch, especially if they drive in heavy traffic.
Waiting stationary eg at lights with car in gear and foot on clutch loads the release bearing...

Not saying these things are the reason, just indicating what manufacturer is likely to point out.
Have you had the bearing examined to see if it was faulty or substandard?

[fistandantilus]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Thanks Des8, some good points.


I have not had the car dismantled yet as I am trying to understand my rights and approach first. So at this stage you could say I am making an assumption about the nature of the failure.


How would I find out if the bearing was not "adjusted properly"?


There are only two drivers using both cars (my partner and I). The second car has done 180K and is still on the first clutch - my partner did about 40K of those and she has done about 60K on the previous clutch in the car in question (it managed over 90K in total and it was the friction material that wore out not the bearing). Our driving patterns have not changed in recent years. So I think that rules out either of us riding the clutch.


Nevertheless, I could not accept that a quality OEM bearing last only about 17K miles.

[wales01man]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Does the mechanic who stated the bearing should last 80k miles guarantee those he fits for 80k miles a lot depends on how the car is driven and many other factors to how long any car component lasts

[fistandantilus]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

I understand it can vary a lots but see my post a couple of minutes ago for details of how we drive. It has not been abused and we have both managed very high mileage on a clutch.

[des8]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

I can appreciate your concerns, and I too would be concerned at the early demise.
The problem is going to be PROVING it was faulty.
You will probably have to have the material analysed, and whether or not that will be a viable option I could not possibly say.
There are so many reasons for a release bearing to fail prematurely that if they suppliers refuse to accept liability, you will have a difficult task ahead.

[fistandantilus]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

The key question for me is what is the expected lifetime of the clutch bearing? I know it varies depending on driver, but you've seen my case above and clearly it is reasonable to expect around 80K miles, certainly 17K is unreasoable by anyone's count. It started to make a noise several months ago when it was less than 2 years old.


The Sale Of Goods Act (SOGA) says that goods have to be fit for purpose and part of that is reasonable durability - clearly the goods have failed on this account. SOGA applies up to 6 years irrespective of any guarantee/warranty (guarantees and warranties make claiming easier and don't in any way diminish your SOGA rights). It becomes increasingly harder to prove as the years go by but I feel that less than 2 years since the noise first started (now 2.5 years) and only 17K miles clearly falls foul of SOGA.


Does anyone with legal experience agree/disagree/have more to add?


The other question is could the installers have fitted/adjusted it incorrectly and caused premature failure as per Des8's comment above? Does anyone know how I could find that out?

[wales01man]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

This is difficult to prove unless you were to get an expert to check the bearing unlikely anyone who could prove it should have lasted longer could be found a mechanic you know says it should last 80k but you did not answer my question if he would guarantee one for 80k .
Tyres another consumable on a car can last varying mileages my Renault has had tyres replaced at 48k my cmax before that had tyres that only lasted 10k same tyres different cars doubtful Michelin guarantee tyres for 49k.

[des8]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

What vehicle do you have, and which manufacturer made the release bearing.

How was the problem diagnosed?
I know it was a friendly mechanic, but he won't be the first to misdiagnose a noise!
Could you describe the noise, and when it is heard.

If a release bearing failed prematurely I'd be looking more to incorrect installation, poorly adjusted pedal linkage/cable, bent forks rather than poor quality bearing material.

[fistandantilus]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Seat Alhambra 1.9 Tdi 2002.
The release bearing was part of a 3 part kit made by Sachs (clutch, slave/bearing, pressure plate) which are arguably the best manufacturer. This is one of the most annoying aspects - you pay for the best and hence don't expect the worst performance!
My friend says the sound is distintive - no noise when clutch is out or when fully depressed, only around the bitting point (whether in gear or not). I can't easily describe the noise but knowing about bearings and hearing others gone I would agree it sounds like a bearing to me.


I believe it is a hydraulic system with the bearing attached to the slave cylinder within the bellhousing and no cables are involved. When you say bent folks if you are referring to the pressure plate that was also replaced as part of the kit.


Can you please describe how a bearing can be fitted incorrectly and still work but cause its premature failure?

[wales01man]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Have you contacted the supplier of the clutch and the fitter should be first stop then go from there

[fistandantilus]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Before contacting the fitter I am trying to understand whether they are likely to blame. I have used them for 20 years and they have been very good. That's doesn't mean they couldn't screw something up though but I don't want to upset them if its not likely their fault (but am happy too if it is of course).


Maybe des8 can explain how a release bearing can be fitted incorrectly and still work but cause premature failure?

[des8]

Re: Replacment Clutch Failure

Not having heard the noise........
But if it is a squeal it could well be the bearing, but it may also be bad input shaft bearing, badly installed slave cylinder (coming loose?) among other things.
If it is a whirrng scraping noise probably the release bearing
I think its a three bolt fixing for the slave, so no it can't be incorrectly located, but bolts could work loose if not torqued properly.

Anyway I think you need to pull it apart to see what is wrong before deciding from whom to seek recompense.


Regarding improper fitting, we didn't know what vehicle or system was being used and I'm a bit of a dinosaur normally working with old mechanical or external hydraulic systems!