DWP debt from 27 years ago

[jeffo365]

Just recently I received a letter from the DWP informing me that their records show that I owe £970.84 to them.
When I asked when the claim was from the lady on the phone told me it was for £100 social fund loan and the rest was income support over payment from 1989.
This has now opened up some big questions because I was married at the time and I was claiming on my then wife's behalf, wouldn't she be liable too?
I also asked for documentation evidence to support such a claim but that could take weeks to be sent out to me and the deadline for me to make an agreement to pay is 19/08/2016. I received the letter on 05/08/2016 which is when I rang them, so if these documents haven't arrived by then, can I extend the time limit?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.:judgey:
Jeff.

[des8]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Hi and welcome

I read somewhere (but can't locate it at moment) that DWP guidelines are that debts in excess of 20 years old should not be pursued.

If you are not in receipt of social security payments there is little DWP can do.
The alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of the Limitation Act, so they can't take you to court.
They can only recover by deduction from any ongoing payments.

In any event do not agree to make any payment untl they have proved their figures, and whio is responsible for repayment , if any.
After all if Joe Bloggs popped up and said you owe me a grand from a quarter of a century ago, would you pay him without saying "prove it"

[ostell]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

I believe such things as DWP debts don't, unfortunately, become statute barred. But I could be wrong.

[nemesis45]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

I believe such things as DWP debts don't, unfortunately, become statute barred. But I could be wrong.

Correct but as des8 says there is " guidance " on pursuit of debts 20+ years old.

nem

[des8]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

The DWP has six years in which to take action through the courts.
The time starts running from the date of the final decision made on the overpayment, or from when the social fund was due to be paid.
However DWP can make deductions from ongoing benefits without going to court

This from National Debtline




Benefit overpayments and social fund loans

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for benefit overpayments and social fund loans is six years.
The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for benefit overpayments, is when a final decision is made on the overpayment. This is most likely to be a final decision by a council, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or a tribunal.

For social fund loans, the cause of action is when the loan becomes due for repayment.

If the council or DWP tries to issue a county court claim against you for an overpayment of benefit, and you think it is statute-barred, you can put in a defence. This is complicated and you should get legal advice first. Contact us for advice about how to find the right legal advice for you.

However, if you are getting ongoing benefits, the DWP or council can take money directly from your benefit or wages to repay overpayments.

[Kati]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

????

[Kati]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Interesting thread here too - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...15-yr-old-debt!!

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Just recently I received a letter from the DWP informing me that their records show that I owe £970.84 to them.
When I asked when the claim was from the lady on the phone told me it was for £100 social fund loan and the rest was income support over payment from 1989.
This has now opened up some big questions because I was married at the time and I was claiming on my then wife's behalf, wouldn't she be liable too?
I also asked for documentation evidence to support such a claim but that could take weeks to be sent out to me and the deadline for me to make an agreement to pay is 19/08/2016. I received the letter on 05/08/2016 which is when I rang them, so if these documents haven't arrived by then, can I extend the time limit?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.:judgey:
Jeff.

Hello, Jeffo365

The person/s liable is/ are the one who was paid the IS or other state benefits. DWP will do a costs versus benefit analysis to see whether it's financially viable for them to take recovery action against you/ your wife. £970 is a lot of money for DWP so it may be in their interest to make a claim to the local County Court. DWP however do have a certain discretion, which they may or may not exercise. If the sum were £300 or less and 20 years had passed they'd likely use the discretion. For virtually a £1000 it's unlikely to use their discretion for this amount.

DWP law is that they have to first prove that there was an overpayment: "..fraudulently or otherwise, any person has misrepresented, or failed to disclose, any material fact and in consequence of the misrepresentation or failure.." to take you to the County Court. For instance if it was their error - you/ your wife are not liable.

[charitynjw]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

This from clickon22 (posted today, 07/08/2016)

http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...687#post667687

[jeffo365]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Thank you all for your replies. I have since found out that in April 2014 the government changed the statute bar ruling on public funds to no time limit. My greatest concern however is how long they will take to draw up the documentation dating back to 1989 and will this surpass the deadline date of 19/08/2016? The adviser on the phone told me if the paperwork isn't with me by that date, I can ring up to extend the time limit but unfortunately we will be on holiday from 14-20th of August.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Thank you all for your replies. I have since found out that in April 2014 the government changed the statute bar ruling on public funds to no time limit. My greatest concern however is how long they will take to draw up the documentation dating back to 1989 and will this surpass the deadline date of 19/08/2016? The adviser on the phone told me if the paperwork isn't with me by that date, I can ring up to extend the time limit but unfortunately we will be on holiday from 14-20th of August.

Don't worry about their deadline date. For them to claim back the overpayment, they require a County Court judgement. Without the paper work from 1989, DWP's case will fail at the court for lack of evidence. Therefore tell DWP it's arbitrary giving you a dead line when it's DWP who have the burden of proof. They cannot just guestimate the overpayment anyway, they have to be precise. If it is a £100 for IS, it has to £870 for other benefits. Other benefits have to be defined, valued and itemised, otherwise any claim DWP make to the County Court will fail.

[Debt Camel]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

For them to claim back the overpayment, they require a County Court judgement.

No they don't. They could go for a CCJ but they can deduct amounts from current benefits being paid or go for an attachment of earning without a CCJ.

HOWEVER I wouldn't get too stressed by this "deadline".

If no paperwork has turned up by the 13th, the day before you go away, I suggest sending them a letter saying that to the best of your knowledge you were not overpaid Income Support in 1989 or at any other time. If they have any evidence to support this allegation, you wish to ask for a review as to whether the debt is recoverable. Send it off recorded delivery and keep a copy.

NB you haven't mentioned the alleged social fund loan - when does that date from? Are you disputing that as well?

[des8]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

[QUOTE=jeffo365;667699]. I have since found out that in April 2014 the government changed the statute bar ruling on public funds to no time limit./QUOTE]

Can you please give details about where you found this nugget?

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

Just recently I received a letter from the DWP informing me that their records show that I owe £970.84 to them.
When I asked when the claim was from the lady on the phone told me it was for £100 social fund loan and the rest was income support over payment from 1989.
This has now opened up some big questions because I was married at the time and I was claiming on my then wife's behalf, wouldn't she be liable too?
I also asked for documentation evidence to support such a claim but that could take weeks to be sent out to me and the deadline for me to make an agreement to pay is 19/08/2016. I received the letter on 05/08/2016 which is when I rang them, so if these documents haven't arrived by then, can I extend the time limit?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.:judgey:
Jeff.

Jeffo, you can appeal the decision if you have grounds, ie the amounts were made in error. You could also say, 27 years is unfair to make claims and, if any payments were owed or to be claimed by the secretary of state (ie DWP), that he should have made such claims long before now as he had at least constructive or actual knowledge that such claims were likely. You may be able to use a defence of 'laches,' which means that the claimant (DWP) has taken too long to make a claim. I would ask for reconsideration by a decision maker, and if no joy, appeal this decision, take it to the Social Security Tribunal, alongside these remedies, take it to the Parliament Ombudsman (via MP as formality), for what is potentially mal-administration by DWP. Putting it another way, it's outrageous/ unconstitutional to make a claim what is virtually 30 years after the event. I made an error as I was thinking of DWP claims against estate which applies to County Court. Debt Camel is quite correct in saying that County Court is just one of the remedies open to DWP to recover over-payments in these types of circumstance.

[Openlaw15]

Re: DWP debt from 27 years ago

[QUOTE=des8;667744]

. I have since found out that in April 2014 the government changed the statute bar ruling on public funds to no time limit./QUOTE]

Can you please give details about where you found this nugget?

DWP is the Executive part of government...whilst they're no longer a priority debt for bankruptcy (ie HMRC), they're not affected by statutory time limits. The government is simply not going to restrict itself, it instead has discretionary powers that come within the scope of 'checks and balances'...ie tribunals, Parliament Ombudsman, or internal reviews and reconsiderations. Companies, businesses - such as sole traders, individuals, are simply entirely different so statutory limitations will and do apply.