Secured loan problem after sale of property

[Doozy]

Back in 2005 we went to a firm of solicitors to undertake the sale of our property .
We had a mortgage as a 1st charge and 2 secured loans on the property we only sold the house as we was having financial difficulties and was the only way we could see to relieve ourselves to situation we was in we also had some credit card debts and other things which would of been easy to deal with in terms of payment plans .
Once the sale of the property all secured loans should of been paid the sum of £xxxx was then transfered to us from what was left from the sale (this is where it get complicated) We was advised by the solicitor that funds transfered to us was by mistake some weeks later I might add but at this time we'd spent the money on other debts and things.we was told rest assured it would get sorted as we wasn't in a position to give the funds back.
So the original lender took the solicitor to court for the money outstanding against the property and won but transfered deed of assignment over to solicitors .
The solicitor then sent us a default notice in 2010 under the original credit agreement and any intrest under that agreement is now due to them. They registered a ccj against for the amount plus intrest but we now find ourselves paying 8% plus a Daily charge on top which is now way more than the original money they paid the lender .any advice of this situation would be much appreciated

[Diana M]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

Are you saying your own (conveyancing) solicitor transferred more money than he should into your bank account on completion of your property sale in 2005?

Then as a result he (solicitor) underpaid your mortgage lender the amount due on your behalf to redeem your mortgage?

My first reaction to that is maybe your solicitor was professionally negligent at that point. Were you given a completion statement showing the correct or incorrect figures?

I'm struggling to understand (my problem not yours) what happened after that.

It appears that your lender (1st charge mortgage not the secured loans?) then successfully got a CCJ against your solicitors because they (lender) were aware that it was the solicitors fault not yours.

This next bit of the saga needs clarifying.

Your solicitor then successfully got a CCJ against you in 2010 for not returning the money he'd transferred into your account in error. Is that right? If so did you defend that claim at the time?

How much was the overpayment in 2005? Have you paid back anything since then (presuming that you may owe it but that's not clear yet)?

Di

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

Let me try explain this better our mortgage was with halifax and so was the secured loan the solicitor we used paid the mortgage but failed to pay the secured loan on completion they then transfered any balance left into our bank and we was told it was correct because we did query it at the time. We was given a completion statement showing monies that had been paid out and any left over transfered to us we did ask if it was correct as we knew it should of been paid we was told by the solicitor it was a personal loan and didn't need to be paid they had spoke to halifax on numerous occasions and was told the payments on the loan would carry on as normal because it was a personal loan . After a few weeks we received a letter from the solicitor stating that the money had been transferred to us when it shouldn't of been so I spoke to the halifax and asked was there we could do to rectify the situation we now find ourselves in as we wasn't in a position to give he solicitors the money back. Halifax said we couldn't do anything about it as the solicitor had an underwriting to settle .so halifax took the solicitor to court for the money they should of paid and received the amount outstanding in 2006 but signed deed of assignment over to the solicitor in 2010 they sent us a first default stippled to a photocopy of court papers with only the amount they paid out we didn't defend the claim as all paperwork was sent to an old address then in 2012 we was summoned to our county court to answer so have been paying 125 a month since 2012

[Diana M]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

Do you mean your original solicitor (as Claimant who'd been assigned your Halifax loan with a zero balance?) issued a county court summons in 2012 to an address where you no longer lived which is why you didn't file a Defence at the time so got a Default Judgment (CCJ) which you didn't know about?

Did the county court which "summoned" you in 2012 send everything to your current address?

That's the bit which is confusing me.

How much was the outstanding balance of the secured loan shortfall in 2005 which your solicitor failed to pay on your behalf on completion? How many years were left on the fixed term loan if you had carried on paying it albeit you were expecting to settle it in total on the sale of your property?

How much is the balance now with the (CCJ 8%?) interest being added ?

Di

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

I'm not sure what you mean by solicitor assigned as zero balance
do you mean did the halifax Asseign
over to the solicitor with a zero balance or with the balance of £24799.53 which was outstanding from the non payment of loan.
At the time papers came in 2010 I was experiencing serious mental health which I wasn't In the frame of mind to of understand.which I'm presuming would of meant default judgement would of been made as I didn't defend it .
2012 a man from our local county court came and said we had to appear to the court to answer .I sought legal representation at the time and was advised that we had enriched from it so what was the problem in paying it back .
The balance of the ccj is now£ 36276.68 this is added intrest at 8% per annum plus a Daily rate at£ 4.36 . At the court in 2012 they asked for an attachment of earing which we had suspended and started paying £125 a month as that all we could afford sorry it's so confusing it is for me too

[Openlaw15]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

Hello doozy, sorry to hear about these problems.

Back in 2005 we went to a firm of solicitors to undertake the sale of our property .

We had a mortgage as a 1st charge and 2 secured loans on the property we only sold the house as we was having financial difficulties and was the only way we could see to relieve ourselves to situation we was in we also had some credit card debts and other things which would of been easy to deal with in terms of payment plans ."

What were the secured loans for, what amount, and how were they secured? Secured usually means a land charge, ie on the property. The mortgagee (bank) has property charge 1 therefore. Were the secured loans from the same bank or someone else? I assume that the secured loans also had charges? Look at your property's land register for details, only costs about £3 to get online, I believe. If the mortgage were a repayment type, ie capital and interest, the mortgage should have been paid off without any debt owed. However, if the mortgage type were 'interest only' but linked to endowment (ie insurance policy), it's an endowment type mortgage. An endowment mortgage is not automatically paid off as it depends on whether the insurance policy has matured enough.

"Once the sale of the property all secured loans should of been paid the sum of £xxxx was then transfered to us from what was left from the sale (this is where it get complicated) We was advised by the solicitor that funds transfered to us was by mistake some weeks later I might add but at this time we'd spent the money on other debts and things.we was told rest assured it would get sorted as we wasn't in a position to give the funds back."

All the secured loans should would only be paid off after the mortgage, assuming there was enough equity in the property.

"So the original lender took the solicitor to court for the money outstanding against the property and won but transfered deed of assignment over to solicitors ."

Do you mean the debt was transferred by a deed?

"The solicitor then sent us a default notice in 2010 under the original credit agreement and any intrest under that agreement is now due to them. They registered a ccj against for the amount plus intrest but we now find ourselves paying 8% plus a Daily charge on top which is now way more than the original money they paid the lender .any advice of this situation would be much appreciated

Please answer the questions I have asked.

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

The loans was secured against the house with halifax and halifax is who the secured homeowner loan was with so yes I know was secured by way of charge as halifax refused to release the property to the solicitor untill funds were paid.
as for the transfer of deed I'm not sure the solicitor classes them selves as assignee.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

The loans was secured against the house with halifax and halifax is who the secured homeowner loan was with so yes I know was secured by way of charge as halifax refused to release the property to the solicitor untill funds were paid.
as for the transfer of deed I'm not sure the solicitor classes them selves as assignee.

Why did you presume the there would be no debt is my other question? Was it a repayment mortgage? Was there enough equity in the property? Look at your property's land register (if you have a copy) as any interests a person has ie a solicitor, for registered properties must be shown on the register. A bank cannot normally transfer a secure debt to a solicitor as the debt will be protected would have been protected by a property charge (Halifax's) then Halifax would likely have Restriction for the two loans more likely. If they were secured loans they would have been 2 additional charges or 1 extra charge if the two loans were taken together, so the charge will need to registered by the solicitor on your property. Do you have a copy of the property's old land register if not ask the land registry for previous details perhaps.

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

On the sale of the property we knew we would walk away with no debt because there was enough equity in the property to be able to clear the outstanding mortgage the 1st secured loan which was held with a diffrent company and the 2nd secured loan which was held with the halifax along with the mortgage I'm sure our mortgage was a repayment mortgage and as for the land register we don't have the old copy

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

Hello doozy, sorry to hear about these problems.



Please answer the questions I have asked.

I have just found all the original copies of the halifax secured loan which also includes the mortgage deed the original loan amount was for 25000 monthly intrest rate 0.459% it also says 282 monthly payments of 159.04 starting one month after the loan annual percent 5.6% also it looks like we had person repayment insurance cover

[Openlaw15]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

On the sale of the property we knew we would walk away with no debt because there was enough equity in the property to be able to clear the outstanding mortgage the 1st secured loan which was held with a diffrent company and the 2nd secured loan which was held with the halifax along with the mortgage I'm sure our mortgage was a repayment mortgage and as for the land register we don't have the old copy

Ok, let's backtrack a bit. Who had the property sold, I assume it was Halifax/ 1) How much was the property actually sold for; 2) how much was the equity (market price after the mortgage has been paid) in the property; 3) what was the mortgage's balance (prior to sale); 4) what were the balance of the secured loans prior to sale of the property?

What am thinking, in addition to negligence (a tort type of law, ie compensation for losses) claim that Diana M suggests, there may be an estoppel defence for you, as you acted on what you believed was a promise (by the promisor, ie the solicitor) to you (promisee), to your detriment (harm), ie detrimental reliance: High Trees case. You hold what the solicitor said as true (ie a promise) that you could spend the money transferred to you as you were told by the solicitor that it was yours (after the sale of the property), which you were also informed (by the solicitor) that the secured loans were included when the mortgage was paid off through the sale of the property. There is detrimental reliance as you're not in position to pay it back now as the money has been spent: estoppel in High Trees/ other cases. The effect of a promissory estoppel is that the solicitor cannot take court action against you, so you would be estopping his action (cause of action) were he/ she to do so. Evidence: what evidence do you have, ie what letters do you have to prove the solicitor ok'd everything? Was it in writing or just a verbal acknowledgement by the solicitor?

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

1) we ourselves had the property sold to rid ourselves of any major debts we had. The house sold for £127, 500.
2) The equity left after the mortgage was paid was£ 45916.58.
3)the mortgage balance was 81583.42.
4)the secured loan with first national was 18277.88 and the secured loan with halifax was 24799.53. I have got it in writing from the solicitor that the money that was transferred was definitely ours

[Openlaw15]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

1) we ourselves had the property sold to rid ourselves of any major debts we had. The house sold for £127, 500.
2) The equity left after the mortgage was paid was£ 45916.58.
3)the mortgage balance was 81583.42.
4)the secured loan with first national was 18277.88 and the secured loan with halifax was 24799.53. I have got it in writing from the solicitor that the money that was transferred was definitely ours

so, how much do you apparently owe the solicitor and why? Whose solicitor, by the way?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

I'm not sure what you mean by solicitor assigned as zero balance
do you mean did the halifax Asseign
over to the solicitor with a zero balance or with the balance of £24799.53 which was outstanding from the non payment of loan.
At the time papers came in 2010 I was experiencing serious mental health which I wasn't In the frame of mind to of understand.which I'm presuming would of meant default judgement would of been made as I didn't defend it .
2012 a man from our local county court came and said we had to appear to the court to answer .I sought legal representation at the time and was advised that we had enriched from it so what was the problem in paying it back .
The balance of the ccj is now£ 36276.68 this is added intrest at 8% per annum plus a Daily rate at£ 4.36 . At the court in 2012 they asked for an attachment of earing which we had suspended and started paying £125 a month as that all we could afford sorry it's so confusing it is for me too

enriched by what, it was yours to begin. Was this for lawyers fees - if so how much are they claiming from you? How has it reached £36,000

[Doozy]

Re: Secured loan problem after sale of property

so, how much do you apparently owe the solicitor and why? Whose solicitor, by the way?

We apparently owe holmes & Hills the solicitor 36,276.28 because in 2010 they gained a ccj under my original contract for the secured with halifax