Amenity Area fees

[damobungle]

Hi on our estate we have an amenity area as stated in our lease to be used for recreational purposes. However when we have tried to use the area we are told it is in fact a nature reserve and we shouldn't be using it. Submitted an RX3 to the land registry but the company refused it i thought the would considering they are getting money for nothing.
Can anybody advise what to do?
thanks

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Hi and welcome.
Is this a private or local authority land owner?
Local Nature Reserves are almost always owned by local authorities, as to establish a local nature reserve, the declaring local authority must first have a legal interest in the land concerned.
They often pass the management onto county Wildlife Trusts or other local environmental bodies.
LNRs also often have good public access and facilities.
If you're in England you can see if the land youare interested in is an LNR here: http://www.lnr.naturalengland.org.uk/Special/lnr/lnr_search.asp

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Further info:
from your post it seems that the landowner (a company?) has lodged a restriction with Land Registry claiming this land is a nature reserve.
They are charging for access?
This would be in contravention of your lease terms. (freholder the same company?)

Under the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 LNRs may be declared by local authorities after consultation with the relevant statutory nature conservation agency. LNRs are declared and managed for nature conservation, and provide opportunities for research and education, or simply enjoying and having contact with nature.

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Overnight thoughts:
As you have a clause in your lease to use this land for recreational you have in effect an easement.
This would seem to be a registrable disposition, so requires of sec 27(1) of the Land Registration Act 2002 to be met.
more detail here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/easements

This case , dealing with the possibility that an easement may exist to use leisure activities may be of interest:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2015/3564.html

[damobungle]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Overnight thoughts:
As you have a clause in your lease to use this land for recreational you have in effect an easement.
This would seem to be a registrable disposition, so requires of sec 27(1) of the Land Registration Act 2002 to be met.
more detail here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/easements

This case , dealing with the possibility that an easement may exist to use leisure activities may be of interest:
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2015/3564.html

Thanks for all your advice. The land is owned by a land management company, they actually own the land, they where given it by the developer on the estate. They aren't the freeholders on my lease they are just named on the lease and is states that I need to pay them. I owe them a lot of money and they keep on threatening legal action within 7 days. They have sent me the same letter over and over again. Never taken me to court.
We did get a land tribunal ruling that gave us access and they where forced to a third of what they charging us. This lasted 3 years as soon as this ran out bills went up 200% and the site is now impossible to be used for recreational purposes due to the poor maintenance.
Its just basically a con for a company to make money.

This company are doing it all over the UK. We have asked for various pieces of information bills etc we never get them. Our MP got involved near election time, then nothing from her.
thanks

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

So your lease states you have access to this land,( which is "maintained" by the landowner) as an amenity site, but you have to pay the landowner's charges?
However under the guise of "nature reserve" the landowner is not actually maintaining the land and in effect it can't be accessed?


Is the land derelict ie would you class the land as unsightly, neglected, or in an objectionable condition due to litter, rubbish, dumped waste etc?
Are there any structures on it which are in dangerous condition?

If the answer is yes contact your local council as they could possibly deal with it under the Derelict Sites Act 1990.

If the landowner is not maintaining the site so it is fit for use, IMO he is breaching the contract, so you could possibly initiate court proceedings seeking an order for specific performance and/or damages.
As the breach is about unsatisfactoery management and/or unreasonable service charges you might be able to apply to the First tier tribunal (property chamber) for a manager to be appointed. https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber

Hopefully others more au fait with leasehold problems will be able to advise further

[damobungle]

Re: Amenity Area fees

So your lease states you have access to this land,( which is "maintained" by the landowner) as an amenity site, but you have to pay the landowner's charges?
However under the guise of "nature reserve" the landowner is not actually maintaining the land and in effect it can't be accessed?


Is the land derelict ie would you class the land as unsightly, neglected, or in an objectionable condition due to litter, rubbish, dumped waste etc?
Are there any structures on it which are in dangerous condition?

If the answer is yes contact your local council as they could possibly deal with it under the Derelict Sites Act 1990.

If the landowner is not maintaining the site so it is fit for use, IMO he is breaching the contract, so you could possibly initiate court proceedings seeking an order for specific performance and/or damages.
As the breach is about unsatisfactoery management and/or unreasonable service charges you might be able to apply to the First tier tribunal (property chamber) for a manager to be appointed. https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber

Hopefully others more au fait with leasehold problems will be able to advise further

Once again thanks for the advice, we went to a tribunal as you have suggested and things got better for a while, as soon as their ruling passed the fees went up 200% and the lack of maintenance got worse. What the residents would like is for the restrictions to be removed by the land registry, via the RX3. We have tried speaking and working with the company but they just don't want to know.
We have threatened them with legal action before and the response was we have more money and better solicitors than you, good bye!!!

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

[QUOTE=damobungle;659768
We have threatened them with legal action before and the response was we have more money and better solicitors than you, good bye!!![/QUOTE]


.....and yet they haven't carried out their threat to take you to court for unpaid fees.
I wonder why? perhaps they know their case isn't that good.

If you take action in county court and keep claim to under £10,000 the case will probably be placed on the small claims track.
This has costs implications, in that even if you lost you would not have to pay their solicitors costs (unless you were deemed to have acted unreasonably)

As a matter of interest , what is the wording of that restriction?
Any chance of naming that landowner? you say they are known for this sort of behaviour and we might already have knowledge of them!

[damobungle]

Re: Amenity Area fees

.....and yet they haven't carried out their threat to take you to court for unpaid fees.
I wonder why? perhaps they know their case isn't that good.

If you take action in county court and keep claim to under £10,000 the case will probably be placed on the small claims track.
This has costs implications, in that even if you lost you would not have to pay their solicitors costs (unless you were deemed to have acted unreasonably)

As a matter of interest , what is the wording of that restriction?
Any chance of naming that landowner? you say they are known for this sort of behaviour and we might already have knowledge of them!

Hi the company is the Greenbelt group, they where on rip off Britain a couple of year ago.
Would the restriction be on my lease? On the lease there is no section saying restriction just that we have to pay ever year. I will get the lease out in the morning and have a look.
thanks again

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Ah the notorious Greenbelt Group!

So your lease requires you pay a share of the maintenance costs of a piece of open land which has been conveyed to the Greenbelt Group.
The group did lose a case in Scotland, but it was on a technical issue http://www.spanglefish.com/greenbelt...?pageid=571096
http://archive.scottish.parliament.u...roupAction.pdf

But you probably know all that already!

[damobungle]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Yes aware of the case but unless we take them to court there seems to be no way forward. Really need to get them off my deeds using the RX3 form but the land registry wont do it they are saying my case for having it removed isin't strong enough.
thanks

[des8]

Re: Amenity Area fees

Other than initiating court action against them as suggested earlier I have no other ideas.
You did say court action had been threatened, but apparently not followed through as " we have more money and better solicitors than you, good bye!!!"
Follow it hrough, but keep claim below £10,000 .
Small claims track makes it more of a level playing field, and why should shysters solicitors be any better than anyone else?
I hate boasters.