Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

[MrMuckells]

Hi Everyone

Im just after some advice, we initially booked a wedding reception in November 2015 but do to unforeseen circumstances we've had to cancel the venue, I paid £500 deposit to secure the date but We never actually signed a contract with the venue Even though there is a generic contract drawn up we do not sign it.

The venue is now saying we have to pay a additional cancelation fee as ref in the contract, When I enquired we never signed the contract to these terms and conditions they have come back with under Scottish law we are legally binding after we paid the deposit, does anyone know if this is true or not as we were not made aware of this by the venue before or when paying our deposit.

Has anyone had any similar dealings with this? Thank you in advance

[Amethyst]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Were you given a copy of the contract ( and had chance to read it) before paying your deposit ?

How much is the cancellation fee, and how much notice have you given?

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Hi Amethyst

Yes we were given a copy of the contract before we paid the deposit, but it does not say in the contract that will legally binding the deposit was to secure that certain date,the cancellation fee is £590 on top of our non returnable deposit of £500

We have given 16 weeks notice, The Contract also states that it must have been signed by us and returned within 10 days of us paying the deposit which we paid November 2015, failure to do so will free the venue from all further obligations relating to this contract, We actually forgot to sign the contract but we were never chased up after the 10 day window to return it.

[Amethyst]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Okay - this bit failure to do so will free the venue from all further obligations relating to this contract helps. In essence not signing and returning the contract means that the venue could have resold your booked date at any point ( so silly on your part not to return it, but fortuitous given the circumstances )

Is there a bit in the contract about staged cancellation fees v notice periods ? (ie is that where they've worked out this £590 from - assume £1090 overall inc deposit - so is that like 50% of the total ? or 20% - depends on the venue- I'm a cheapskate lol)

The only contract actually in existence is the verbal contract you made when paying the deposit - which was on the basis that it was non-refundable and held the date for you. Any other conditions attached in that conversation which led to payment of the deposit ?

We might need to see the written contract if you can do a pic/scan of it.

The CMA have been doing some work on weddingvenues lately - will see if I can dig it out.... here you will find this interesting - https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ory_letter.pdf

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Thank you so much for your help Amethyst, yes they want us to pay 70% of the total venue cost.

I could upload the contract but it has personal details on it, Im going to have look at the link you posted up thank you so much i really appreciate it

[Amethyst]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Feel free to email me and I'll just post up the relevant parts suitably redacted ( or just read it myself if it's straightforward) ( admin@legalbeagles.info )

Would like to see particularly the bit about the cancellation fees, any mention of deposit, and the bit about if you don't sign within 10 days they have no obligations to perform under the contract.

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Hi Amethyst I'll
Email the whole contract to the email address you've supplied I don't mind you seeing our personal details just not the general public thank you so much for you help I'll email now

[Amethyst]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Ta Posting up a few bits to get some other's input on...... 16 weeks is nearly 4 months, so there could be time for the venue to get another party booked in on the relevant date.

Within 10 days of issue of the deposit invoice, xxxxxxxxxxxxxx operators must receive your non-refundable deposit, signed Contract with Terms and Conditions to confirm your booking. Should you fail to do so within ten days xxxxxxxxxxxxxx reserves the right to release the provisional booking, re-let the facilities and charge you for any loss of revenue caused and be entitled to reimbursement by you of any costs incurred by xxxxxxxxxxxx in connection with your booking.

so the contract and the deposit go hand in hand really - they will be arguing that payment of the deposit is acceptance of the terms of the contract.

5.5 Please be aware that your deposit is non refundable

5.6 In the unfortunate event that you have to cancel a confirmed booking, please let us know as soon as possible as a fee will be levied which is based on the amount of notice you give us:
Days Prior to Event 0-31 days 32 - 90 days 91 – 160 days 150 + days
% total anticipated costs less non –refundable deposit
100% 80%
70% Deposit

Facility fee £480 (plus VAT)

and

Catering Minimum Catering spend of £800 (plus VAT)

So as far as I can see you have agreed to pay £480 and £800 plus VAT - Total £1536 ? - does that sound right ?

No other amounts are on the contract . You have paid £500 and want another £590 = £1090 ( the 70% for cancelling about 112 days from event - which works out about right - about £15 out. )

Now the contract isn't very clear on the amount you actually committed to - the venue hire has almost been paid in full with the non refundable deposit - minus about £76.

They COULD relet the venue for the same night over the next 4 months. They haven't actually paid out anything for the catering. £500 is over 30% of the total cost which is excessive for a deposit in the first place IMO.

Here - from the CMA.

If you cancel the contract, the business is generally only entitled to keep or
receive an amount sufficient to cover their actual losses that directly result
from your cancellation (eg costs already incurred or loss of profit).
y
Businesses must take reasonable steps to reduce their losses (eg by re-selling
the goods or services).
y
Non-refundable deposits should only be a small percentage of the total
price.
y
Cancellation charges must be a genuine estimate of the business’ direct loss.

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

So do you think they can legally make me pay the cancellation fee? Even though we never signed their terms and conditions?

They said that our contract is legally binding after we paid our deposit and sent me these links but they don't really make much sense to me

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/7/contents


http://whatconsumer.co.uk/is-it-a-le...#axzz49loXBQWe

[Amethyst]

they are trying to intimidate you - 'writing shall not be required for the constitution of a contract' basically - but if not in writing the contract is verbal - and thus only what you agreed - if they did not inform you of the cancellation terms then it is not a part of the contract. I think in Scotland it wasn't common law that contracts could be verbal and HAD to be written so they had to make a law to change that.

I guess they have a lot of 'but i didn't sign the contract' complaints for them to send you that ..... Did they give you opportunity to read the contract before paying the deposit - or discuss any of the terms with you about cancellation ?

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

They just gave us the contract to sign which we forgot, they never actually discussed anything verbally apart from we needed to pay the deposit to secure the date but they also didn't mention that by paying the deposit makes up legally binding into a contract whether we sign it or not? They never once made us aware of this....if In fact it's actually true

[Ripped-Off]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

The contract says:

In the unfortunate event that you have to cancel a confirmed booking

In order for there to be a confirmed booking there must be payment of the non-refundable deposit and there must be a signed Contract with Terms and Conditions. Until that requirement is satisfied the booking is a provisional booking and not a confirmed booking.

The penalty for breaking a provisional booking is the right to release the provisional booking, re-let the facilities and charge you for any loss of revenue caused and be entitled to reimbursement by you of any costs incurred by xxxxxxxxxxxx in connection with your booking, whereas the penalty for a confirmed booking is presumably damages for a breach of contract, though it does not say.

Can it be that in this case the operator wants the best of both worlds, a written contract where there is a confirmed booking and a verbal contract where there is a provisional booking? It's one or the other, it can't be both.

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Im just a bit baffled by it all, The only reason we didn't sign the contract was we totally forgot as we had a lot on at the time hopefully this will work to our advantage with regards to the cancellation fee they are asking for

[Ripped-Off]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

If the booking is not a confirmed booking there is no right to the cancellation fee.

If your booking was a provisional booking then the remedy is to charge you for any loss of revenue caused and be entitled to reimbursement by you of any costs incurred. I doubt they have lost any revenue or incurred any costs.

[MrMuckells]

Re: Wedding Venue Unsigned contract

Thats exactly what I'm emailed them now Ripped-Off Im quoting exactly what they have in their contract thank you so much for your help