HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

**seduraed** · 11th April 2016, 21:41:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

keep paying pay shoosmiths as instructed, do it online if necessary. a default can really mess up the credit reting. if shoosmiths think you are several payments behind then send the receipts to them.

**R0b** · 11th April 2016, 22:03:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Hello Minimetty

Are you able to provide copies of your statements when you actually paid the finance company? Have you tried to email Shoosmiths via email or by letter?

I'll be honest I am not entirely sure Shoosmiths are entitled to "manage the debt" on behalf of Avelo Ltd. They are a law firm which means that they are exempt from certain regulated activities but exercising the rights of a lender under a regulated agreement is not one of them I think. You need to be fully authorised by the FCA to do that. Law firms can carry out a regulated activity which is incidental to the service being provided so in my eyes managing the debt and taking payments is not incidental to the service provided to their client (Avelo Ltd).

I'm pretty certain what they are doing is a prohibited activity so I would be questioning whether or not they are entitled to manage the debt on behalf of their client if they are not authorised. If you can show or prove that the monies you have paid was to the correct finance company before the letter was sent to you then you should be fine.

In the meantime you can VT the agreement anytime before the Agreement is terminated but they would also have to send you a default notice e.g. Shoosmiths if they are managing the debt before they can terminate the Agreement otherwise it will be wrongful termination and you can sue for that.

If you do VT the agreement then you will need to pay half the amount within a reasonable time or risk being taken to court with a CCJ. IF you can prove the payments have been going to the correct bank account which is the finance company I'm not sure why you are so worried. You will have the evidence to show the payments have been made and Shoosmiths have no cause of action against you.

You could also include that in line with CONC 7.14 a regulated firm (if Shoosmiths claim they are exempt from being authorised) must suspend any steps where a debt is disputed and to investigate the matter.

**minimetty** · 11th April 2016, 23:10:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Yes I can proove bank statements to finance company right up to this last moth payment when they asked me to change the mandate at the bank to Avelo.
Ye I have tried to email, letter and call shoosmiths but no reply, I called FCA they sent me this email reply ,
Here is the information we have about Shoosmith and Avelo:

Any queries about loans or repayments, they should get in touch with Shoosmiths, who will be able to help.

The telephone number for Shoosmiths is 03700 863434.

Shoosmiths is aware of the difficulty some callers are currently experiencing in getting through to them to discuss the transfer of accounts.

In the meantime, callers who cannot get through are being diverted to a dedicated voicemail facility which is being checked and cleared on an hourly basis. Shoosmiths are working through those voicemail messages and returning customer calls as fast as they can.

Please find our rules here around Regulated credit agreements and exemptions (PERG 2.8.14ZA).

If you think the amount being pursued is not correct then you may wish to check here our rules under: CONC 7.14.2 Settlements, disputed and deadlocked debt

CCJ i need to avoid because of my job so thats not an option. Im not in financial position to pay half but does that mean say £13k owed therefore £6500 is half less the payments already made £3300 and balance to pay? I might be able to get that sum together.

I was thinking of doing a SAR to see what shoosmiths hold because others have been issued with new agreements to sign albeit lower APR but wrong agreement numbers and in some cases wrong vehicles. Its a shambles.

Apparently there are 6000 credit agreements for shoosmiths to manage.

I need a plan of action, shoosmiths are apparently entitled to manage the account for avelo and avelo have had all interests and rights on our original agreements transferred to them.

FCA are telling me to contact law society as shoosmiths are sending out wrong notices yet law society say we need to complain to SLA. its all a mess.

**R0b** · 12th April 2016, 07:42:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Well, having checked the FCA register again it seems Shoosmiths do have interim permission for debt colllection and debt administration, must have missed it last night.

Are you able to show us the letter(s) that Shoosmiths have sent you so far? Have you received any notice of assignment from Avelo or the finance company you had your payments with?
You can send a redacted copy to admin@legalbeagles.info and @Amethyst will pick it up for you.

Just so we have a timeline of information here it would be helpful to fill in the gaps below

March 2015: HP Agreement entered into
December 2015: Finance Co in administration
X 2016: Letter from Shoosmiths to say you are in arrears
X 2016: you sent an email/called Shoosmiths to discuss your agreement further

Have you been supplied with any bank details for Shoosmiths?
When was the date/s you called/emailed Shoosmiths?

A notice of assignment is needed to be sent to you before Avelo can have legal rights and interests in the agreements. If it has not been sent then they do not have a right to the payments under the agreement.
If the email/calls you have made are more than 14 days then I would suggest that you email again to invoke their complaints procedure in the way they have handled the situation, again CONC 7.14 stipulates that any disputed debt must be investigated and firms should adhere to those rules or potentially face consequences of not doing so.

The FCA I believe may be referring to the SRA not the SLA. You could also voice your complaints to them as law firms have a set of principles and a code of conduct so they may take note of your complaint but won't necessarily investigate. Still it is worth telling them anyway.

I appreciate the situation you are in at the moment and is no doubt a stressful time however you will need to weigh up what you would like to do right now. It sounds like you have the evidence you need to prove that you have been making the payments since you entered into the agreement and there has been nothing wrong done on your part. If the finance co in administration has failed to update your credit file then that is wrong and you could potentially take action against Avelo if they refuse to update it once you have supplied them with your statements showing your payments.

The question is whether you really want to VT, pay the remaining half and get rid of the car potentially leaving you in a difficult spot moneywise. Alternatively you could maintain the payments until you have reached the halfway point or VT closer to the time when you might be able to better afford the payoff.

I would be wary of entering into a new HP agreement that Shoosmiths are handing out, so be very cautious before you sign something if you go down that route. As I have said in my last post, Shoosmiths cannot just default you, they would need to sent a notice of arrears first before they can apply a default or terminate the agreement. If they have not done this then they are not entitled to do either. I've tagged @nemesis45 as he may be able to give some better advice on this point.

I would also be interested to see the HP agreement and the terms if you have that as well.

If you need help drafting something up, let me know and will see what I can do.

p.s. is the finance co still in administration or is now dissolved - can you provide us with the name of the company?

**nemesis45** · 12th April 2016, 08:48:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Originally posted by R0b View Post

Well, having checked the FCA register again it seems Shoosmiths do have interim permission for debt colllection and debt administration, must have missed it last night.

Are you able to show us the letter(s) that Shoosmiths have sent you so far? Have you received any notice of assignment from Avelo or the finance company you had your payments with?
You can send a redacted copy to admin@legalbeagles.info and @Amethyst will pick it up for you.

Just so we have a timeline of information here it would be helpful to fill in the gaps below

March 2015: HP Agreement entered into
December 2015: Finance Co in administration
X 2016: Letter from Shoosmiths to say you are in arrears
X 2016: you sent an email/called Shoosmiths to discuss your agreement further

Have you been supplied with any bank details for Shoosmiths?
When was the date/s you called/emailed Shoosmiths?

A notice of assignment is needed to be sent to you before Avelo can have legal rights and interests in the agreements. If it has not been sent then they do not have a right to the payments under the agreement.
If the email/calls you have made are more than 14 days then I would suggest that you email again to invoke their complaints procedure in the way they have handled the situation, again CONC 7.14 stipulates that any disputed debt must be investigated and firms should adhere to those rules or potentially face consequences of not doing so.

The FCA I believe may be referring to the SRA not the SLA. You could also voice your complaints to them as law firms have a set of principles and a code of conduct so they may take note of your complaint but won't necessarily investigate. Still it is worth telling them anyway.

I appreciate the situation you are in at the moment and is no doubt a stressful time however you will need to weigh up what you would like to do right now. It sounds like you have the evidence you need to prove that you have been making the payments since you entered into the agreement and there has been nothing wrong done on your part. If the finance co in administration has failed to update your credit file then that is wrong and you could potentially take action against Avelo if they refuse to update it once you have supplied them with your statements showing your payments.

The question is whether you really want to VT, pay the remaining half and get rid of the car potentially leaving you in a difficult spot moneywise. Alternatively you could maintain the payments until you have reached the halfway point or VT closer to the time when you might be able to better afford the payoff.

I would be wary of entering into a new HP agreement that Shoosmiths are handing out, so be very cautious before you sign something if you go down that route. As I have said in my last post, Shoosmiths cannot just default you, they would need to sent a notice of arrears first before they can apply a default or terminate the agreement. If they have not done this then they are not entitled to do either. I've tagged @nemesis45 as he may be able to give some better advice on this point.

I would also be interested to see the HP agreement and the terms if you have that as well.

If you need help drafting something up, let me know and will see what I can do.

p.s. is the finance co still in administration or is now dissolved - can you provide us with the name of the company?

Good morning,

Great advice from [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] I would not as R0b said be inclined to take and replacement HP agreement that Shoosmiths are pushing unless it had forensic examination .
Shoosmiths imo have no right /authority to default the account going through the process stated above but I would challenge their authority to issue a DN in the first instance.

nem

**minimetty** · 14th April 2016, 20:50:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Are you able to show us the letter(s) that Shoosmiths have sent you so far? Have you received any notice of assignment from Avelo or the finance company you had your payments with?
I have sent the letters and all correspondence to Amethyst inbox ( I think) –
March 2015: HP Agreement entered into with Cars4credit and told by salesman to come back in 12 months, not to worry about high interest etc. as this is just a reflection that you have moved house too many times in last couple of years (husbands job forced our house moves) – we will then make an application to refinance with a lower APR to reduce your payments etc. We signed on the understanding this was a temporary solution as I urgently needed transport for work

December 2015: Finance Co in administration unbeknown to us however companies house check shows this – check Cars for Credit on company search facility
February 2016 company cars4credit change of name to Avelo LTD at companies house
October 2015 last entry on credit file to show payments made against our account, No further entries
29^th March 2016: Letter from Shoosmiths to say you are in arrears, stating we should now have received a letter advising C4CLtd have assigned all of its present debt and future right,title and interest to your agreement to Avelo Ltd. Avelo have appointed Shoosmiths LLP to manage your account and have passed your details to us a firm of solicitors.
Letter also says 17 days to repay arrears we are instructed to issue and serve a default notice to which you have 17 days to repay or we will be entitled to terminate the agreement and recover the vehicle
We received no such letter about reassignment of our interests etc
4^th to 6^th April made several calls throughout the day at different times to shoosmiths to discuss the account and why we were in arrears when evidence at the bank we have never missed a payment. Directed at every call to answer machine message. Tried main switchboard and receptionist stated she must put call to answer machine message
07/04/2016 : sent an email/called Shoosmiths to discuss your agreement further. Email included

Pursuant to section 77b of the consumer credit act 1974 we have a right to receive upon request and, free of charge a written statement including a table showing the details of each repayment owing as at the date of my request including the dates on which each repayment is due, the amount and any conditions relating to the making of the repayments and a breakdown of each repayment setting out how much of the repayment is made up of the amount of credit, interest on the amount of credit and any other charges.
No acknowledgement or reply as at todays date 14/04/2016

07/04/2016 – telephoned FCA to explain Avelo not registered company and Shoosmiths looks like they have limited licence and unsure if we should pay shoosmiths. We were told never to pay Avelo and only pay shoosmiths. I asked for confirmation in writing

11^th April – received email from FCA
Thank you for your time.

Here is the information we have about Shoosmith and Avelo:
Any queries about loans or repayments, they should get in touch with Shoosmiths, who will be able to help.
The telephone number for Shoosmiths is 03700 863434.
Shoosmiths is aware of the difficulty some callers are currently experiencing in getting through to them to discuss the transfer of accounts. In the meantime, callers who cannot get through are being diverted to a dedicated voicemail facility which is being checked and cleared on an hourly basis. Shoosmiths are working through those voicemail messages and returning customer calls as fast as they can.
Please find our rules here around Regulated credit agreements and exemptions (PERG 2.8.14ZA).
If you think the amount being pursued is not correct then you may wish to check here our rules under: CONC 7.14.2 Settlements, disputed and deadlocked deb

14/04/2016 – sent reply email to FCA How can I pay shoosmiths who then pay avelo ltd in the knowledge avelo ltd is not a registered company therefore unable to receive money right? Who should I pay?
14/04/2016 – email from FCA received
In this situation Avelo can rely on an exemption which means they don’t need to be directly regulated by us. The exemption they can use basically means they can use the services of a regulated company (Shoosmiths) to procure the debt. This means Shoosmiths can contact you about the debt and advise you if you’re in arrears or if any changes are made to the finance agreement. If Avelo contact you directly, then they would need to be regulated by us but as it appears, they are not contacting customers directly. The agreement will still be active and we would suggest you continue to make payments. The exemption I am referring to in our rules can be viewed at https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/PERG/2/8.html. Please refer to PERG 2.8.14ZA.If you wish to know your legal position you may wish to speak with the Citizens Advice Bureau https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ and if you wish to get more information about the financial agreement itself, the Money Advice Service can provide more guidance.https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en
I also called shoosmiths to be put directly through to answer machine again. As at todays date I feel like we have been mis sold a car agreement at the point of sale, our payments have gone astray, the bank wont refund because we set up standing order, we cant get the solicitors shoosmiths llp to respond or discuss our account, our credit file shows payments have not been made since October 2015 and the latest correspondence from the company instructed and regulated by FCA to manage our account has issued incorrect notices letters and threatening to take our vehicle and it has a tracker fitted that can be immobilised at any time.
Shoosmiths have not provided bank details to pay them, they have sent in the only letter received WAYS TO PAY AVELO LTD which is an unregulated company not authorised to receive payments. No guarantee that payments would be credited to our account and offset against the HP agreement. After all all previous payments to the same company haven’t.
I did not receive a notice of assignment to Avelo ltd, I only received a letter from shoosmiths making reference to the fact by now I should have etc.
How do I take action against Avelo for not updating my credit report, others in the same situation (there are 6000 agreements at risk here apparently), shoosmiths have said to some others they have 45 days to update credit file.
I would continue to make the payments if I was certain the payment was reducing my balance on the agreement but since October it hasn’t – what to do? Shall I pay a cheque payment to shoosmiths LLP solicitors as they are managing the debt on behalf of Avelo who are not able to receive payments? If they are not ABLE to receive payments then how can I pay ? its all confusing. I want to uld maintain the payments until Ive reached the halfway point or VT closer to the time when I might be able to better afford the payoff.
Does the notice of arrears prior to default have to show full account, Only shoosmiths have said in a two line paragraph I am in arrears of £275.55 when I am not, would that be sufficient? Can [MENTION=42011]Nem[/MENTION]esis help?
I sent a copy of the finance agreement to amethyst admin address, feel free to pick it apart because the addresses and terms on the agreement, well the company Cars4credit have gone bust, the figures relating to the half way point and 1/3 etc do not add up?
Please help me to draft something up, I haven’t got a clue what to do to protect my interests, keep the car to the half way point but be sure the payments are received and credited against my account
The Name of the finance company is Credit4cars, they did a change of name in Feb 2016 and lots of interesting reading from CVR Global who are the administrators

I must thank you so much for your help and advice, at the moment I dont know where to start but would love to throw the book at the director crooks especially after reading the file and report from the administrators

**R0b** · 14th April 2016, 21:57:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

I've tagged [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] as just to remind her, hopefully will be able to see the docs. She did tell me they were quite large in size however, will wait and see.

In the meantime I will take a look at what you've written so far.

**minimetty** · 14th April 2016, 22:36:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

yeah sorry im not techie so got son to scan them all and send via email.

thankyou

**minimetty** · 14th April 2016, 22:43:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

thanks I will wait to hear R0b next steps to see what I need to do going forward. - appreciate your help

**minimetty** · 15th April 2016, 06:16:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Originally posted by seduraed View Post

keep paying pay shoosmiths as instructed, do it online if necessary. a default can really mess up the credit reting. if shoosmiths think you are several payments behind then send the receipts to them.

There is no facility to pay shoosmiths online, i cant get an answer from them on phone either and sent emails off with no reply. Avelo ltd have a website but all you can do is make a payments and FCA advised me NOT to pay AVELO. Others in the same situation have paid and their bank statement shows payment to AVELO ltd which is an unregistered company who are not authorised to recieve money. Shoosmiths say I am 1 payment in arrears however others who got the same letter have had new agreements sent out to sign and shoosmiths have said the arrears letter threatening default after 17 days non payment was an error on their part and guess what no apology either.

**R0b** · 15th April 2016, 07:48:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

I've managed a quick read through and subject to the documents you've sent to Amethyst, I think we need to:

1. Send a letter to the SRA - unlikely they will do much other than keep a record and explain Shoosmiths conduct in the matter

2. Send a letter to Avelo formally beginning the complaints procedure, a copy of which should be sent to Shoosmiths also. They can either supply a final decision letter asap or you will have to wait 8 weeks to go to the FCA. Avelo should in the meantime suspend any further action until the complaint investigations have taken place. Reference should also be made to CONC 7.14.2 about debt disputes.

3. If they do try to initiate legal proceedings, we could look at several counterclaims including a wasted costs order against Shoosmiths (complete unreasonable behaviour, lack of response, ignorance etc.), damages for breach of data in relation to incorrect reporting on your credit file with regards to the missing payments, no valid notice of assignment and possibly an incorrect default notice which is not my realm but @nemesis45 will be able to supply an answer to that once we see the documents.

Just to clarify you are up to date in payments before the administration? So the next payment is due when Shoosmiths supply the relevant bank details and a reasonable time should be given to make payment and then continue thereafter.

When you say you feel you were mis-sold the agreement, on what basis do you feel this is the case? did you use your credit card in any way when you paid a deposit for the car and if so how much was used to pay?

**Amethyst** · 15th April 2016, 09:05:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

I sent over the docs last night to you R0b on email, did you get them okay?

**R0b** · 15th April 2016, 09:08:AM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Yep, just checked I have got them - will review them tonight

**minimetty** · 15th April 2016, 16:15:PM

Re: HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

Originally posted by R0b View Post

I've managed a quick read through and subject to the documents you've sent to Amethyst, I think we need to:

1. Send a letter to the SRA - unlikely they will do much other than keep a record and explain Shoosmiths conduct in the matter

I will do this first thing tomorrow

2. Send a letter to Avelo formally beginning the complaints procedure, a copy of which should be sent to Shoosmiths also. They can either supply a final decision letter asap or you will have to wait 8 weeks to go to the FCA. Avelo should in the meantime suspend any further action until the complaint investigations have taken place. Reference should also be made to CONC 7.14.2 about debt disputes.
Will you be able to help me draft this up please, is there a template or anything I can begin with?

3. If they do try to initiate legal proceedings, we could look at several counterclaims including a wasted costs order against Shoosmiths (complete unreasonable behaviour, lack of response, ignorance etc.), damages for breach of data in relation to incorrect reporting on your credit file with regards to the missing payments, no valid notice of assignment and possibly an incorrect default notice which is not my realm but @nemesis45 will be able to supply an answer to that once we see the documents.

I had a threat of a default notice 18 days ago threatening that I need to pay arrears (which there aren't any) in 17 days or they will send a default notice

Just to clarify you are up to date in payments before the administration? So the next payment is due when Shoosmiths supply the relevant bank details and a reasonable time should be given to make payment and then continue thereafter.

Yes this is right, shoosmiths have attached a 2nd sheet to the letter "ways to pay" and ask me to the account of AVELO LTD who are not authorised or regulated to take payments. I was thinking pay a cheque directly to and in the name of shoosmiths for tracing in future. My next payment instalment would be due on 25/04/2016.

When you say you feel you were mis-sold the agreement, on what basis do you feel this is the case? did you use your credit card in any way when you paid a deposit for the car and if so how much was used to pay?

my husband and I were both told at the point of signing the agreement when I questioned the figures and payment etc, as we went to that garage because we were told by the salesman he could get the car for monthly payments for us for an affordable sum. When he then did credit check the underwriters apparently said we could have the car but the instalments and APR was significantly higher because, we had moved house too often and, there were a couple of silly 100 debt and 66 mobile phone bill to repay etc. We hadn't realised those little sums were affecting our ability to get cheap credit I nearly walked away thinking pay off all those little accounts or at least investigate what they were and if in fact owed (which they weren't because they related to a phone I no longer had and had notified the provider. Anyway the salesman assured us it wasn't a problem, this was just a short agreement because although it said 4 year term we could return in a year when we have proof of regular payments, we were both on the electoral roll etc to re do the finance with lower payments and lower APR and put our car in for part ex, We were led to believe this was a temporary solution to our circumstances at the time. Page 3 of the agreement states credit £5499,00 and total amount to pay £13526 however we were led to believe that is the figure at the end of the 4 year agreement. If we had know from the minute we left that office they had already put £7k interest charged to us therefore in that 1 years time, there would be no possibility of refinancing for a cheaper instalment. My husband made a call to them on 03/11/15 for a settlement figure and was told the balance was £5293 to pay.

We didn't pay a penny, the man said he would do the figures on the agreement to look as if we had paid a deposit of £300. I paid a holding fee of around 50 to 100 at most to the garage just to show we wanted to keep the car. That was debit card

HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

HP cars4credit in administration help needed on VT of agreement

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