Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

[Glam vile]

Hi there
Id be very grateful for any advice with a large solicitors bill that has suddenly and unexpectedly arrived.

I had a meeting with a solicitor 2 months ago which was duly paid for.
A few days later a letter of engagement arrived , giving contract details, terms and conditions and a request for me to sign to accept.

I did not sign to accept this letter of engagement.
But I called the solicitor to explain I was not ready to commence any proceedings yet, but would be in touch when I was willing to sign the contract.

Two months on I have received a very large bill when no contract has been signed.

Please help me here-
Can they invoice me when I have not signed their letter of engagement?
what is my standing here and what is the most effective way to clear this up without additional costs incurred .
Thank you for any advice
G

[wales01man]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Have they done any work for you?

[R0b]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

I would say no you are not. The fact that you have told them you will let them know when you are willing to sign it and they go ahead and do the work anyway is their fault really. I would question why they have done the work without your consent and more importantly without a signed letter of engagement consenting to do the work as discussed.

[Glam vile]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Have they done any work for you?

Hi, thanks for your query here.

The total amount payable isfor nearly £1800.

£1500 of this sum looks to be required upfront as security for future costs.
However they are demanding it now and pointing out interest will be charged if not paid within30 days.

Regarding the ACTUAL work they have completed the bill quotes:
-Initial meeting £190
-Draft letter/contract. £120
-Amending and sending of letter £95
-Phone call, (me to them) £12

TOTALS for work done
Initial net total for actual work £417.
plus vat £83.40.
Total. £500.40

(I have already paid for the meeting; they didn't advise that a contract letter summarising the meeting was a large additional cost.)

So the above list summarises the work actually completed.
I had thought there would be no further costs following the meeting, maybe I was being naive?
What do I legally have to pay as I have not signed any contract?

Im not sure what law I can quote as I will need to debate this with them and come from a position of strength.
Id be grateful for all advice on how to best manage from here.

M thanks

[Glam vile]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Hi Rob,
Thanks for the assurance here.
Do you know if there is a contract law that solicitors have to adhere to?
Im just hoping that my attendance at a meeting cannot be taken as an implied agreement for the opening of a contract and upon which they can act, and invoice.
G

[R0b]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Just because you had a meeting to take some initial legal advice does not mean that you have agreed for them to act on your behalf, that is why the letter of engagement is sent to you as that is a binding agreement. Not sure why they have charged you extra for the letter of advice that had already been given to you at the meeting, and also charging for the letter of engagement. Sounds like they are trying to pull one over you here.

As I said, you should write back to them and point out that at no point have you signed the letter of engagement so you fail to see why they started work without your consent. They were made aware of this again when you were contacted on X date and you explicitly told them you will get back to them if you sign it. That in itself means that you did not agree for them to act on your behalf and they have just presumed that you will sign it which is their fault and not yours. There is no binding agreement, no intention to create legal relations lack of consideration for the work done so all in all there is no binding contract.

I would also ask them to explain, why have they began work when a) you never instructed them to do any work and b) you never signed the letter of engagement. You should also get them to explain why you have been charged for the letter of advice that was given in the initial meeting which should have been wrapped up in the cost of the meeting. You are effectively being charged twice for the same advice?! As for charging for the letter of engagement, can you imagine if all the banks started charging people for each time they sent you out a contract that you may or may not sign :tongue1:

[ULA]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Hi, I am sorry to hear that you have had an unexpected bill from your solicitor. I do need to ask you a few more questions prior to being able to provide you some guidance.

1. When did you pay for the initial meeting you had prior to, at the time or soon after?
2. Was a bill provided detailing what the payment was for? e.g the sum of £xxx plus VAT for attending a meeting and providing advice.
3. At the meeting did the solicitor make it clear what action he/she was going to take as a result of the meeting?
3. Do you have a record of the date and approximate time that you contacted your solicitor to say that you were not ready to commence any work? Did you actually speak to the solicitor or was it another member of staff and if so did you get their name?
4. What was the timescale between you having the meeting and receiving the contract details and their terms of business?
5. In either of the documents provided did it contain a clause about them needing to be in receipt of a signed copy from you of any of their documents to confirm you want them to continue with the matter?

[Glam vile]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Hi, I am sorry to hear that you have had an unexpected bill from your solicitor. I do need to ask you a few more questions prior to being able to provide you some guidance.

1. When did you pay for the initial meeting you had prior to, at the time or soon after?
2. Was a bill provided detailing what the payment was for? e.g the sum of £xxx plus VAT for attending a meeting and providing advice.
3. At the meeting did the solicitor make it clear what action he/she was going to take as a result of the meeting?
3. Do you have a record of the date and approximate time that you contacted your solicitor to say that you were not ready to commence any work? Did you actually speak to the solicitor or was it another member of staff and if so did you get their name?
4. What was the timescale between you having the meeting and receiving the contract details and their terms of business?
5. In either of the documents provided did it contain a clause about them needing to be in receipt of a signed copy from you of any of their documents to confirm you want them to continue with the matter?

Hi there
Thanks for your reply

1. I paid for the meeting on the day of attendance, 19/01/16

2. There was no written invoice provided, so no detailing of what the payment was for.
I later received a posted letter of receipt, dated 21/01/2016, (but franked on 26/01/16, and received by me on 28/01/16.)
This letter of receipt just stated the amount received from me.

3. I had contacted the solicitor to research fees prior to meeting them and was informed by email there would be a fee of £190 plus vat as a special first meeting rate.
At the meeting my situation was discussed, they advised re options and process, and did talk clearly of costs.
At no time though did they say a summary letter, and contract for signing was extra to the meeting costs.

4. The contract/ letter of engagement was received by me on 24/01/2016.

The front page of the letter of engagement starts as follows:

'Thank you for your instructions to assist you in this matter. This letter sets out matters of specific relevance to the work the firm will do for you and describes the basis on which we will do the work. This letter also sets out the firms terms of business and information that we are obliged to give you....
When you have read this letter, please sign and date the enclosed copy and return it to me as soon as possible.
This letter constitutes the agreement between us. Your continued instructions in this matter will be taken to indicate your acceptance of these terms....'

The letter closes a few pages on, at point of signature request :

'Provided that you are happy with the terms of this letter I would be grateful if you would indicate your understanding and acceptance of these arrangements by dating and signing the enclosed copy of this letter and returning to me '


I spoke to the junior solicitor (on 04/02/2016) involved in the case to say I was not yet ready to proceed. This was 11 days after receiving this letter.
She advised that they were willing to wait and would pass this information on to the managing solicitor.
Yes do have the name of this junior solicitor,
Unfortunately I don't have evidence of the content of this conversation,just that it took place as I'm being charged for it on my invoice.

Thank you for your interest and advice
g

[Glam vile]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Just because you had a meeting to take some initial legal advice does not mean that you have agreed for them to act on your behalf, that is why the letter of engagement is sent to you as that is a binding agreement. Not sure why they have charged you extra for the letter of advice that had already been given to you at the meeting, and also charging for the letter of engagement. Sounds like they are trying to pull one over you here.

As I said, you should write back to them and point out that at no point have you signed the letter of engagement so you fail to see why they started work without your consent. They were made aware of this again when you were contacted on X date and you explicitly told them you will get back to them if you sign it. That in itself means that you did not agree for them to act on your behalf and they have just presumed that you will sign it which is their fault and not yours. There is no binding agreement, no intention to create legal relations lack of consideration for the work done so all in all there is no binding contract.

I would also ask them to explain, why have they began work when a) you never instructed them to do any work and b) you never signed the letter of engagement. You should also get them to explain why you have been charged for the letter of advice that was given in the initial meeting which should have been wrapped up in the cost of the meeting. You are effectively being charged twice for the same advice?! As for charging for the letter of engagement, can you imagine if all the banks started charging people for each time they sent you out a contract that you may or may not sign :tongue1:

Thanks for this advice, I'm beginning to get a better understanding about where I might be and how to manage this
But by writing or communicating with them about this can they then charge me further?
(within the letter of engagement they advise that all letters, emails, phone calls, and
any time on my case etc will be charged for)?
M thanks again
G

[ULA]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Thank you for the answers to the questions. I agree with R0b that the only commitment by you and the solicitor was your attendance at the initial meeting which was at the cost of £190 plus VAT which you duly paid. As an aside they should have provided you with detail in the receipt as to what service had been provided for the sum receipted.

Therefore the bill you received should not have recharged you for the meeting you had already paid for, plus in my view the itemising and trying to bill you for producing the contract/letter of engagement and then amending that letter which appears to be what they have done is not good practice. So the summary of the bill is that the firm is going to double charge you for the meeting and then charge you for opening their file.

Most solicitors will either wait for the signed documentation before acting further or the client will contact the solicitor in between receipt of the document and actually sending back the signed copies to get them to do some work on the matter - this action constitutes acceptance of the solicitor's terms of business. You did neither in this case and actually contacted them to say you did not want to pursue the matter at this time. A conversation they have charged you for!!

As R0b has suggested you need to write/email your solicitor setting out the points that are detailed in paragraphs 2 and 3 of post #6 and also add in "the summary of the bill is that your firm is going to double charge me for the meeting and then charge me for opening your file on a matter that I was not ready to pursue and has informed you of this".

I would advise that this correspondence should also be sent to the person detailed in the contract/letter of engagement as being the supervisor of the solicitor dealing with your matter.

I hope that armed with this guidance from us all it will lead to them withdrawing the bill but if they do not see sense then the next course of action would be to ask formally for the firm's complaints procedure which should include details of the Partner responsible for complaints. Hopefully it will not get to that but we are here if you need us if the matter needs to be taken further. This is not a bill you should be paying.

Also just on your concern about them adding interest if you do not pay within their payment terms, whilst a bill is in dispute they should not do this again it would not be good practice in my view.

[Glam vile]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Thank you for the answers to the questions. I agree with R0b that the only commitment by you and the solicitor was your attendance at the initial meeting which was at the cost of £190 plus VAT which you duly paid. As an aside they should have provided you with detail in the receipt as to what service had been provided for the sum receipted.

Therefore the bill you received should not have recharged you for the meeting you had already paid for, plus in my view the itemising and trying to bill you for producing the contract/letter of engagement and then amending that letter which appears to be what they have done is not good practice. So the summary of the bill is that the firm is going to double charge you for the meeting and then charge you for opening their file.

Most solicitors will either wait for the signed documentation before acting further or the client will contact the solicitor in between receipt of the document and actually sending back the signed copies to get them to do some work on the matter - this action constitutes acceptance of the solicitor's terms of business. You did neither in this case and actually contacted them to say you did not want to pursue the matter at this time. A conversation they have charged you for!!

As R0b has suggested you need to write/email your solicitor setting out the points that are detailed in paragraphs 2 and 3 of post #6 and also add in "the summary of the bill is that your firm is going to double charge me for the meeting and then charge me for opening your file on a matter that I was not ready to pursue and has informed you of this".

I would advise that this correspondence should also be sent to the person detailed in the contract/letter of engagement as being the supervisor of the solicitor dealing with your matter.

I hope that armed with this guidance from us all it will lead to them withdrawing the bill but if they do not see sense then the next course of action would be to ask formally for the firm's complaints procedure which should include details of the Partner responsible for complaints. Hopefully it will not get to that but we are here if you need us if the matter needs to be taken further. This is not a bill you should be paying.

Also just on your concern about them adding interest if you do not pay within their payment terms, whilst a bill is in dispute they should not do this again it would not be good practice in my view.

Hi Ula and R0b
Thank you both for taking the time to advise me here.
I'll draw up a letter of response along the lines given by you, and hopefully it won't escalate further!
G

[ULA]

Re: Unexpected solicitors bill, when contract not yet signed

Good luck. It would be good to know how you get on and you know where we are if you do not get a satisfactory outcome.