Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

[Medazzaland]

Good Morning

Around a year ago I purchased a property. All was seemingly well, no notices, issues etc within the purchase process / conveyancing and the house itsels is fine.

Approx 2 months ago I received a letter from a third party ( not neighbour / local occupant) suggesting that the property boundary was encroaching on land which wasnt owned by myself. The letter included LR diagram etc.

I was previously unaware of the issue ( not mentioned in house purchase / previous occupier) but the claim would have significant impact on the rear boundary. having no prior knoweldger of the land / boundary I cant really add any history to the debate, but feel as though my conveyancer should have picked up such a signifcant discrepancy?

The garden has been in its current configuration for at least 25-30 years ( we have evidence of this). I am seeking advice on what practicle next steps i can take. I have been offered the land to purchase by the claimant, and in its own right the land ( approx 8m sQ) isnt accesible or available for development / anything much more than scrub etc


I dont want to pay out for land i believed id bought within my house sale but unclear what i can do with spending lots of money to defend the land

[R0b]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Have you contacted the conveyancing firm who did the work on your behalf? If so what have they said? You should also request a copy of your file if you have paid all of your fees as you should be entitled to it and see what they have on file - is the conveyancing firm a law firm? You may have a claim against the conveyancing firm for professional negligence but equally given the length of time in its current configuration you may have also acquired prescriptive right of way provided that permission for right of access over the land was not given.

I have tagged @Openlaw15 who may be able to help on this

[Medazzaland]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Thanks Rob appreciate the reply. I have contacted the conveyancer and await a response. I have a copy of their complaints procedure and will be escalating to the Legal Ombudsman subject to their response / outcome.


I am unfamiliar with the terms 'prescriptive right of way' and 'right of access' etc - and their 'real' i.e. my basic understanding. I am told that if i ( another term) claim a version of that i may not have total ownership of the land? i.e. access but dont own 100% ( via Land Registry etc) - my knowledge isnt great on this subject hence the need for advice


The other point is that there seems to be no real scale ( apart from noddy calculations) on the land in question, its effectively a cube of land 'bolted on to the bottom of the garden - there is no obvuious way to see / detect change in any boundary. I am unaware of how i can gain any measurements of the plot from the build date and compare them to now?
- I am nervous the conveyancer whilst having done searches etc might respond with " how would have know" type statements


Bottom line - I am being asked to pay again ( or move my boundary) for land i thought i owned already ( and its 1/3 of my rear garden!!

Hope that all makes sense

[R0b]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Prescriptive rights is where you acquire a right through enjoyment over a long period of time. I appreciate this option would not give you the right to own land but at least have the right to use it, so I suppose this is a worst case scenario argument.

I also suppose that the piece of land claimed by another person will also affect the valuation of the property so you may have actually overpaid which again is something you may wish to look into.

Are you able to post up the letter and diagram with your personal information redacted? It is also quite possible that this could be a scam, you can do a land registry search yourself for the cost of 3 quid and see what plan the land registry has. You could also confirm and verify the land allegedly owned by them by contacting the land registry.

The land they are claiming should have a Title Number which is usually 2 letters followed by numbers, again the land registry could verify if this is real or not or you could verify it yourself by going here and putting in the title number https://eservices.landregistry.gov.u...5SW5pdC5kbw!!/

If it is indeed the case that the land is owned by the person claiming it then this should have been flagged up by the conveyancing firm at the very least as part of their checks although equally in rare instances, the land registry could be at fault and you could make a claim from them. Your first port of call is to verify the land in question by the land registry through the above options.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Good Morning

Around a year ago I purchased a property. All was seemingly well, no notices, issues etc within the purchase process / conveyancing and the house itsels is fine.

Approx 2 months ago I received a letter from a third party ( not neighbour / local occupant) suggesting that the property boundary was encroaching on land which wasnt owned by myself. The letter included LR diagram etc.

I was previously unaware of the issue ( not mentioned in house purchase / previous occupier) but the claim would have significant impact on the rear boundary. having no prior knoweldger of the land / boundary I cant really add any history to the debate, but feel as though my conveyancer should have picked up such a signifcant discrepancy?

The garden has been in its current configuration for at least 25-30 years ( we have evidence of this). I am seeking advice on what practicle next steps i can take. I have been offered the land to purchase by the claimant, and in its own right the land ( approx 8m sQ) isnt accesible or available for development / anything much more than scrub etc


I dont want to pay out for land i believed id bought within my house sale but unclear what i can do with spending lots of money to defend the land

Update: copy and paste your property register's details as we can then analyse its content. A deed by itself is not a binding interest if it post 2003 as the legal interest must be registered, if it is not registered it is not watertight. You conveyancer/ lawyer likely registered the property if it was not done so already.

Thanks Rob. Hello Medazzaland.

It seems there may have been a purchase of the land by the 3rd party prior to your purchase. Is the property registered or not? I assume it is. Look on your property's register and you should see any third party interests. It is only likely to be a right to use your land via prescription (prescriptive easement) if the third party has not paid for it. Any sale or transfer of land since the late nineties has to be made in writing, or alternatively it is a watertight interest if it made by deed (legal interest). If it is registered land as I assume so, it should have been registered as a land charge or restriction on your property. if it is not registered land it would still require a land charge, but in any event your conveyancer/ lawyer should have informed you of any third party interests. So, my advice is first check your property's land register.

[Crazy council]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Hi there.

Do you have a copy of your deeds, specifically any covenants instructions over right of ways. Was the land part of a bigger parcel of land that was divided up

property boundys ..... had to deal with these a few times, my advise, do not give them ANY info unless formally instructed to. There are a number of ways you can protect yourself/property against these claims/claimants. As far as you should be concerned, you purchased a house, with the boundires, as is, you have some cover there from your acting legal people, secondly, the length of time the boundary been in place ( you suspect 25 years ), is also in your favor..

depending on the age of the build, when the land was split, the landreg may not be the deciding factor, the earlest formal documentation usualy is, ( mostly the land reg has this but not always ) . Just be vary carfull giving the claiments ANY information that your not ordered to

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Hi there.

Do you have a copy of your deeds, specifically any covenants instructions over right of ways. Was the land part of a bigger parcel of land that was divided up

property boundys ..... had to deal with these a few times, my advise, do not give them ANY info unless formally instructed to. There are a number of ways you can protect yourself/property against these claims/claimants. As far as you should be concerned, you purchased a house, with the boundires, as is, you have some cover there from your acting legal people, secondly, the length of time the boundary been in place ( you suspect 25 years ), is also in your favor..

depending on the age of the build, when the land was split, the landreg may not be the deciding factor, the earlest formal documentation usualy is, ( mostly the land reg has this but not always ) . Just be vary carfull giving the claiments ANY information that your not ordered to

It cannot be a right of way (ie easement) if the third party can sell it. He must have purchased the land to be able to sell it.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Prescriptive rights is where you acquire a right through enjoyment over a long period of time. I appreciate this option would not give you the right to own land but at least have the right to use it, so I suppose this is a worst case scenario argument.

I also suppose that the piece of land claimed by another person will also affect the valuation of the property so you may have actually overpaid which again is something you may wish to look into.

Are you able to post up the letter and diagram with your personal information redacted? It is also quite possible that this could be a scam, you can do a land registry search yourself for the cost of 3 quid and see what plan the land registry has. You could also confirm and verify the land allegedly owned by them by contacting the land registry.

The land they are claiming should have a Title Number which is usually 2 letters followed by numbers, again the land registry could verify if this is real or not or you could verify it yourself by going here and putting in the title number https://eservices.landregistry.gov.u...5SW5pdC5kbw!!/

If it is indeed the case that the land is owned by the person claiming it then this should have been flagged up by the conveyancing firm at the very least as part of their checks although equally in rare instances, the land registry could be at fault and you could make a claim from them. Your first port of call is to verify the land in question by the land registry through the above options.

Rob a prescriptive right means a right to use another person's land where there has been this use for at least 20 years without interruption except limited circumstances. The OP has only just moved in the property, so if this were to apply anyway the previous occupant would have had to fulfil the statutory law criteria for the new owner to acquire the right to use the land.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi there.

Do you have a copy of your deeds, specifically any covenants instructions over right of ways. Was the land part of a bigger parcel of land that was divided up

property boundys ..... had to deal with these a few times, my advise, do not give them ANY info unless formally instructed to. There are a number of ways you can protect yourself/property against these claims/claimants. As far as you should be concerned, you purchased a house, with the boundires, as is, you have some cover there from your acting legal people, secondly, the length of time the boundary been in place ( you suspect 25 years ), is also in your favor..

depending on the age of the build, when the land was split, the landreg may not be the deciding factor, the earlest formal documentation usualy is, ( mostly the land reg has this but not always ) . Just be vary carfull giving the claiments ANY information that your not ordered to

There may be an easement by deed (legal easement). However, the issue the OP has, in my view, is not the right to use land but his property is more limited than he thought.

[Crazy council]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

I ask that, becuase sometimes when larger packets of land are split up, acessways into the individual plots can change, sometimes these go un-noticed on the plans, also, boundrys on individual plots, wasent always measured from many points ( some are just measurements from old roads, and them roadways may have moved a bit over the years.

I would always recommend, deads first, then if any caviate on deads, do a local search of planning records from the archives.

My main bit of advise to the poster though, DONT GIVER THE CLAIMANT ANY INFO UNLESS YOUR ORDERED TO

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Good Morning

Around a year ago I purchased a property. All was seemingly well, no notices, issues etc within the purchase process / conveyancing and the house itsels is fine.

Approx 2 months ago I received a letter from a third party ( not neighbour / local occupant) suggesting that the property boundary was encroaching on land which wasnt owned by myself. The letter included LR diagram etc.

I was previously unaware of the issue ( not mentioned in house purchase / previous occupier) but the claim would have significant impact on the rear boundary. having no prior knoweldger of the land / boundary I cant really add any history to the debate, but feel as though my conveyancer should have picked up such a signifcant discrepancy?

The garden has been in its current configuration for at least 25-30 years ( we have evidence of this). I am seeking advice on what practicle next steps i can take. I have been offered the land to purchase by the claimant, and in its own right the land ( approx 8m sQ) isnt accesible or available for development / anything much more than scrub etc


I dont want to pay out for land i believed id bought within my house sale but unclear what i can do with spending lots of money to defend the land

What is the value of the land, ie how much would he sell it to you for? You can then potentially claim this back in damages from the conveyancer/ lawyer as it was quite negligent to now be aware that that land you thought you owned you did not. Is it worth gong through the Legal Ombudsman, again it depends how much the land was worth. You may be able to argue the boundary at a land tribunal as if the land the 3rd party has was not made in writing if it was acquired in after 1989, or not by deed, you may be able to defeat his interest.

[R0b]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Rob a prescriptive right means a right to use another person's land where there has been this use for at least 20 years without interruption except limited circumstances. The OP has only just moved in the property, so if this were to apply anyway the previous occupant would have had to fulfil the statutory law criteria for the new owner to acquire the right to use the land.- - - Updated - - -There may be an easement by deed (legal easement). However, the issue the OP has, in my view, is not the right to use land but his property is more limited than he thought.

What statutory criteria is it you are referring to? There are 3 ways of prescription: tracing the use of the land to before 1199 (unlikely), Prescription Act (not applicable here) or the doctrine of lost modern grant which is what I referring to above. If the use of the land has been enjoyed for 20 years without any lawful explanation then it is presumed to have been in a deed of grant and that grant has been lost and will pass on to new owners. The OP could in reality request a statutory declaration or go to court on this and if successful, use the judgment to register it at the land registry.

But as I said before, looking at the land registry title and plan to determine if the land is owned by someone else or if there is any reference to it and also wait on the response from the conveyancing firm

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

What statutory criteria is it you are referring to? There are 3 ways of prescription: tracing the use of the land to before 1199 (unlikely), Prescription Act (not applicable here) or the doctrine of lost modern grant which is what I referring to above. If the use of the land has been enjoyed for 20 years without any lawful explanation then it is presumed to have been in a deed of grant and that grant has been lost and will pass on to new owners. The OP could in reality request a statutory declaration or go to court on this and if successful, use the judgment to register it at the land registry.

But as I said before, looking at the land registry title and plan to determine if the land is owned by someone else or if there is any reference to it and also wait on the response from the conveyancing firm

It's not prescriptive easement per se type query - as this would then pertain to the right to use another party's land. The query is in fact that the op's land was potentially misrepresented to him by his legal representative. The prescriptive easement via lost modern grant also does not apply as there was no fictitious grant to be granted as the affected land is not a 'right of way' type easement issue. In any event a prescriptive easement is a costly remedy and is not legal until a court says it's legal. It is a very controversial remedy and the opponent would not just stand by and let the other use his land based on ancient prescription without a fight as it were. A prescription is normally used for large estates ie farms....as right of way. The salient issue is that the OP's boundary is less than expected.

[R0b]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Sorry not following you on the prescriptive rights point.. doctrine of lost modern grant does not require proof that the grant existed and will not be rebutted where it can be demonstrated that there was no grant.

Of course the OP's problem right of way is not the main issue but forms part of the whole issue. Firstly, negligence on part of the conveyancing firm and secondly whether or not the OP has a right over the land.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Sorry not following you on the prescriptive rights point.. doctrine of lost modern grant does not require proof that the grant existed and will not be rebutted where it can be demonstrated that there was no grant.

Of course the OP's problem right of way is not the main issue but forms part of the whole issue. Firstly, negligence on part of the conveyancing firm and secondly whether or not the OP has a right over the land.

Prescription type scenarios: 1) if 20 years of more use the Act, if less than 20 years use the fictitious lost grant. The right must also be capable of grant - it must also not be done with permission. It also cannot be exclusive use. A barrister would be laughed out of court if his client's prescriptive claim via the Act or by lost modern grant did not have to be legally proven. If this were the case anybody could say they have a prescriptive right to use another's land, it's ok because ancient law says that I do! Most easements are equitable unless done by deed.

[R0b]

Re: Recent House Purchase & Retrospective Claim for Land UK

Lost grant is 20 years or more not less, and I agree not be done with permission but I don't believe it must be exclusive use. The onus is on the person claiming the land to show that there was no grant or that there was a licence of sorts to rebut the presumption. I don't think a barrister is going to be laughed out of court if there is enough evidence on a balance of probabilities that the land has been used as a garden for the last 25 years or so and there is no evidence from the person claiming a right to the land and trespass. Ancient law and case law on lost modern grant has been applied throughout the years right up to the present day.

Having said that, there could also be an argument here of adverse possession For the OP's reference, adverse possession in the case of registered land, allows a person who has used the land without permission for at least 10 years to apply to be the registered proprietor. Schedule 6 of the LRA allows a person to count the previous number of years as long as the criteria is satisfied e.g. a successor of the previous owner. So this option could in theory give the OP a right to apply to be the registered owner of the land.