G'day

[Stevey9]

Hi everyone, just to say hello. I'm going to be looking for advice around a DCA called 1st Credit and a debt they're chasing me for. Like Arnie said "I'll be back" Stevey9

[FlamingParrot]

Re: G'day

Hi and welcome aboard

Do tell us more about 1st Crud... opcorn:

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Where do I start with this lot. Here goes....its a £700 debt supposedly outstanding from a Lloyds bank credit card issued in 1998 which defaulted in 1999 with a balance outstanding of £3500. It had a credit limit of £2500 and £2800 was paid up until 2011. They've sent me a copy of a scanned copy of the signed credit card application with no signature from the bank. The £2500 accept is hand written at the top. They also sent a list of payments between 1999 and 2011 no account details. Also a really poor copy of the terms and conditions which is completely illegible. I have not acknowledged the debt to date. I have submitted a SAR request along with the £10 (begrudgingly&#128520 They responded by saying they are going back to Lloyds for what I suspect will be reconstituted paperwork if any!? I have also asked for a copy of the original signed contract/agreement and a copy of the original default letter. Whilst I'm waiting for there response to my SAR I've read up on a lot on stuff and some stated cases such as the Carey one. I suspect they may have a punt at civil court action which I will defend???? Any advice or experience would be really helpful in my battle with these money grabbing termites and helps keep my stress levels down 😁

[nemesis45]

Re: G'day

Where do I start with this lot. Here goes....its a £700 debt supposedly outstanding from a Lloyds bank credit card issued in 1998 which defaulted in 1999 with a balance outstanding of £3500. It had a credit limit of £2500 and £2800 was paid up until 2011. They've sent me a copy of a scanned copy of the signed credit card application with no signature from the bank. The £2500 accept is hand written at the top. They also sent a list of payments between 1999 and 2011 no account details. Also a really poor copy of the terms and conditions which is completely illegible. I have not acknowledged the debt to date. I have submitted a SAR request along with the £10 (begrudgingly&#128520 They responded by saying they are going back to Lloyds for what I suspect will be reconstituted paperwork if any!? I have also asked for a copy of the original signed contract/agreement and a copy of the original default letter. Whilst I'm waiting for there response to my SAR I've read up on a lot on stuff and some stated cases such as the Carey one. I suspect they may have a punt at civil court action which I will defend???? Any advice or experience would be really helpful in my battle with these money grabbing termites and helps keep my stress levels down 

Hi welcome,

Documents supplied in response to a CCA request must be easily legible in all parts.
A SAR should always go the original creditor (s) the debt purchaser has minimal data
only from the date it purchased the debt.
It's also avoids the likes Lowell having sight of what you get from the SAR.
May we see the documents you have received please.

nem

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Thanks Nem, once I get whatever Lloyds send me in response to the SAR I sent 1st Credit I'll attach them along with the copy of the credit card application they've already sent for your opinion? I'll blank out my personal details just in case. I appreciate the advice so far. Stevey9

[FlamingParrot]

Re: G'day

Where do I start with this lot. Here goes....its a £700 debt supposedly outstanding from a Lloyds bank credit card issued in 1998 which defaulted in 1999 with a balance outstanding of £3500. It had a credit limit of £2500 and £2800 was paid up until 2011. They've sent me a copy of a scanned copy of the signed credit card application with no signature from the bank.

You won't find many applications signed by someone from the bank.

The £2500 accept is hand written at the top. They also sent a list of payments between 1999 and 2011 no account details.

If payments were still made in 2011 then it wouldn't be statute barred.

Also a really poor copy of the terms and conditions which is completely illegible. I have not acknowledged the debt to date.

In that case, they are still in breach of your CCA request because they terms need to be legible. Any idea whether these are actually the terms from inception when you took out the card?

I have submitted a SAR request along with the £10 (begrudgingly��) They responded by saying they are going back to Lloyds for what I suspect will be reconstituted paperwork if any!?

The SAR should have been sent directly to Lloyds, in most cases SARs should go to the bank rather than the debt purchaser who wouldn't have any of the data. The purpose of a SAR is to get statements and other historical info about your account rather than a copy of your agreement, and the historical data in question won't be reconstituted as such, it will be transactions lists and file notes about your account, however, most banks claim to only hold data for the past six years.

At least 1st Crud are being reasonable and forwarding your request to Lloyds, other debt purchasers would just respond with whatever data they have about you, which would be only from the time the account was assigned to them. :thumb:

I have also asked for a copy of the original signed contract/agreement and a copy of the original default letter. Whilst I'm waiting for there response to my SAR I've read up on a lot on stuff and some stated cases such as the Carey one. I suspect they may have a punt at civil court action which I will defend???? Any advice or experience would be really helpful in my battle with these money grabbing termites and helps keep my stress levels down 

The Carey case simply says a reconstructed agreement is acceptable in response to a s.78 request, however, the recon has to be honest and accurate and you should be provided with the terms from inception, i.e. when you took out the card.

I realise it's been a long time but have you any idea how you applied for this Lloyds card? Was it a mailshot? in branch? Over the phone? An advert somewhere?

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Cheers for that reply. The credit card application looks like it was a paper one at the time or should I say a copy of a scanned copy. All the details have been hand written in ink inc the signature which I'm assuming would be in the branch in those days. Most of the copy is legible, but the copy of the terms and conditions they sent with it are completely illegible. 1st C have been quiet for the last 3 weeks other than acknowledging my SAR and thanking me for my patience. Grrrrr...They have told me in previous correspondence that they are unable to provide statements due to the age of the debt. They also advised me that the credit card application copy sent is an agreement which I've challenged. To date I've not acknowledged the debt nor will I until they can prove I owe the amount they're chasing? If I get anything back from them I'll be sure to keep you updated. Its close to the 40 days so no doubt something will land on the mat soon 😈 Cheers again. Stevey9

[nemesis45]

Re: G'day

Thanks Nem, once I get whatever Lloyds send me in response to the SAR I sent 1st Credit I'll attach them along with the copy of the credit card application they've already sent for your opinion? I'll blank out my personal details just in case. I appreciate the advice so far. Stevey9

OK Stevey

There is one point the is no specific obligation to supply an agreement with a SAR many creditors decline to provide them. Sections 77/78/79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) provides fully for the requesting regulated agreements.

nem

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Cheers Nem. That's my next course of action then 👍 Stevey9

[nemesis45]

Re: G'day

Cheers Nem. That's my next course of action then  Stevey9

OK Stevey just shout if you need help.

nem

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Hi Nem, I submitted a CCA request in to 1st Credit along with my £1.00 po last week. Today I received a letter stating we are dealing with your complaint! It states it could take up to 8 weeks? There's no mention of my CCA request and getting back to me within the prescribed timescales although they have acknowledged receipt? Is this normal practice? I've also submitted a SAR to the OC Lloyds TSB last week which has been signed for. This lot are a nightmare. No copy of the default letter to date, no legible copy of the T&C's to date. They just keep fobbing me off by asking me to be patient while they go back to Lloyds. Any advice as always hugely appreciated to help my sanity 😉

[FlamingParrot]

Re: G'day

I submitted a CCA request in to 1st Credit along with my £1.00 po last week. Today I received a letter stating we are dealing with your complaint! It states it could take up to 8 weeks? There's no mention of my CCA request

That's probably a generic template response, which should keep them occupied for a bit. The reason they quote 8 weeks is that, when you submit a complaint, they have 8 weeks to deal with it before you can escalate it to the FOS. Not that this would be applicable here, but it would be their standard template letter.

and getting back to me within the prescribed timescales although they have acknowledged receipt? Is this normal practice?

1st Crud were not the original creditor so they'd have to go back to Lloyds for the paperwork, making it virtually impossible for them to comply within the timescales. Having said that, the debt is unenforceable for as long as they are in default of your request, probably not yet but starting from when the 12+2 working days are up. :thumb:

I've also submitted a SAR to the OC Lloyds TSB last week which has been signed for. This lot are a nightmare. No copy of the default letter to date,

Banks don't usually retain copies of default notices because they are just mail-merged and printed out without being retained as individual files. In some cases you may get a copy of their standard DN template (which isn't much use) or just a database entry stating when the DN was sent out.

no legible copy of the T&C's to date. They just keep fobbing me off by asking me to be patient while they go back to Lloyds.

They have to rely on Lloyds to supply the paperwork, and they're probably in no immediate rush to dig it up if they've sold the account.

Any advice as always hugely appreciated to help my sanity

If 1st Crud are not chasing you (and it looks like they'll leave you alone for AT LEAST 8 weeks), then no news is good news, sit back, relax and forget about 1st Crud :ranger: while the statute barred clock ticks merrily away. :clock: :clock: :clock:

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

That's quality that response. It brought a smile to my face. Lets see what 1st C come back with along with Lloyds. I know they've gone back to Lloyds in the last few months asking for info on the default notice and a legible set of T&C's (they've stated in their internal comms that the ones they sent me are illegible) I read it in the SAR paperwork they sent me. I suppose like you say no news is good news. Thanks again for the advice. Stevey9 👍 😊

[Stevey9]

Re: G'day

Hi, I'm back again having just had a response from the devil company called 1st C. This time its the manager in complaints! She's quoted all sorts of legal jargon in the response to my S78 request. In particular because I have made this request then "regulations 1983 apply" then going onto quote reg 3 (1) and reg 3 (2) in full followed by "as required under 78 (1) as amended in 2006, please find below statement of the account followed by
(a) the state of the account - current outstanding balance of £6..
(b)the amount, if any, currently payable by the debtor to the creditor £6..
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments, which if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor £6..

Is this some means of getting around things to get the amount they're chasing which is 600 and odd quid?

There's more in the letter where they accept the terms and conditions are illegible but they state they will be getting a reconstituted set which they state will suffice?
They have also sent me a screen shot of system notes which looks like its been taken from a google search to transcops.lloydstsb.co.uk/debtmanager.
She's saying this shows the date the default letter was sent to my current address in 1999. It does show the date the default was issued and my current address, but I didn't move to this address until 2007 so what on earth is she talking about. Its nonsense. She has confirmed they are unable to provide me with a copy of the default letter, but system notes are acceptable!!?

Sorry for the long winded message, but any advice as always hugely appreciated. I've got some breathing space as they've said they're waiting for the reconstituted stuff from Lloyds.

Stevey9