brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

[peachyman]

Please could you advise me of what steps to take next please. I have bought a brand new bagging machine (for 25kg bags of aggregate). when the machine was delivered we had severe rain for the week so I was unable to fully inspect the machine for several days but upon inspection it has sever rust patches all over it which effect the structure and is a weakness if the metal. It is a very poorly built machine and is not how it was described to me by the sales director of the company. They have fobbed me off on every occasion and sent the manufacturer out who came and looked at 1 little part of the machine and refused to look at the main defects and weaknesses I was trying to point out just saying all his machines are built to a high standard and he did NOT inspect the machine at all yet has done a report to the seller's saying that everything is fine with the machine. This has been going on for 4 weeks now and the only offer from them is to paint over the rust which does not treat or solve the problem. I have also had the managing director shouting and screaming at me on the phone and when the manufacturer came out to my site he would not listen to anything I had ti say about the defects only his machines are all built the same and also tried to tell me rust doesn't weaken metal. They are refusing to fix the main problems or give me a refund. They have also told me to start using the machine as it won't affect my legal rights as I am refusing to take acceptance of the machine as it built to such a poor standard with so many defects and I am losing approx £200 a day without this machine. due to the way I have been treated and lied.to and forced.to keep this machine I wish to take legal matters to claim a refund. could you please advise me of what to do and the best way to contact trading standards as the product was not what was described to me at all and the company are now just fobbing me off and constantly lying. I have several witness to all conversations between myself and the seller's and manufacturer and all the emails etc. if I can resolve this very soon my business will go under.
many thanks.
A desperate consumer

[FlamingParrot]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

Hi and welcome aboard

Please could you advise me of what steps to take next please. I have bought a brand new bagging machine (for 25kg bags of aggregate). when the machine was delivered we had severe rain for the week so I was unable to fully inspect the machine for several days but upon inspection it has sever rust patches all over it which effect the structure and is a weakness if the metal. It is a very poorly built machine and is not how it was described to me by the sales director of the company. They have fobbed me off on every occasion and sent the manufacturer out who came and looked at 1 little part of the machine and refused to look at the main defects and weaknesses I was trying to point out just saying all his machines are built to a high standard and he did NOT inspect the machine at all yet has done a report to the seller's saying that everything is fine with the machine.

You say the machine was brand new, in which case it should have come with a warranty of some sort. Most warranties for new items last for at least a year. What's the situation here?

This has been going on for 4 weeks now and the only offer from them is to paint over the rust which does not treat or solve the problem. I have also had the managing director shouting and screaming at me on the phone and when the manufacturer came out to my site he would not listen to anything I had ti say about the defects only his machines are all built the same and also tried to tell me rust doesn't weaken metal. They are refusing to fix the main problems or give me a refund. They have also told me to start using the machine as it won't affect my legal rights as I am refusing to take acceptance of the machine as it built to such a poor standard with so many defects and I am losing approx £200 a day without this machine. due to the way I have been treated and lied.to and forced.to keep this machine I wish to take legal matters to claim a refund. could you please advise me of what to do and the best way to contact trading standards as the product was not what was described to me at all and the company are now just fobbing me off and constantly lying. I have several witness to all conversations between myself and the seller's and manufacturer and all the emails etc. if I can resolve this very soon my business will go under.
many thanks.
A desperate consumer

Trading Standards works through the Citizens Advice (CAB) network: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ing-standards/

[peachyman]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

They refuse to fix the rust patches and poor welding etc only offered to paint over them which just hides the rust but as there are already small holes in it the rust will just keep spreading and doing more structural damage. Both the seller and manufacturer are being quite aggressive with me and basically forcing me to keep the faulty machine. They have given me final notice that they will only treat the cosmetic issues and not fix the problems so I want a refund now as my company has lost over £2000 in sales and a very large client due to this faulty machine and if problem is not resolved in next 3 weeks the company will go under and have to close. I have already laid 1 employee off due to costs. many thanks for any help or advice offered.

[dan_1207]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

You say you had severe rain for the week, and only after inspecting the machine did you notice the rust. Could the rain have cause that, by leaving a machine outside, for instance?

[MissFM]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

You say you had severe rain for the week, and only after inspecting the machine did you notice the rust. Could the rain have cause that, by leaving a machine outside, for instance?

Not being funny, Dan, but would it be acceptable for your car to rust if exposed to heavy rain for a week? x

[peachyman]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

nobody would expect a brand new machine that has been under cover and not even used to be in such a poor state with welding and structural defects. I have been in contact with trading standards but need to seek legal advice and go down the court route as the financial losses to myself now could put my business under and I have already had to lay 1 employee off due to this. is there any no win no fee consumer law solicitors at all? many thanks for all the help and advice everyone.

[des8]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

" is not how it was described to me by the sales director of the company. "(quote from post 1)

If that statement is accurate the sales company have breached the Misrepresentation Act 1967, and if you can prove it you could initiate a court claim
which would include your consequential losses.
To begin with you need to send them a letter before claim.
At this stage you don't need to bother with independent engineer's reports, although one might be required later.

Presumably you are running a company, and aren't a sole trader?
Look around locally or on internet for solicitor if you're not confident of DIY (as it won't be small claims track)

[dan_1207]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

Not being funny, Dan, but would it be acceptable for your car to rust if exposed to heavy rain for a week? x

A car (clearly designed to withstand rain), or a machine (which necessarily isn't). Think about it!

[peachyman]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

The day the machine was delivered it was put under cover but even if not you wouldn't expect it to rust within a week and also have welding and structural defects. surely if it's a machine built to use and last outdoors it should withstand some rain. I could understand if I had been using the machine for several months but it was brand new and never used. when the salesman came out to my site I was led to believe that it is built to last and rust etc would come in time with age and usage which I totally understand but as the machine holds 2 tonne in the hopper and vibrates intensely the main welding defects and rusts are on the main part and anything that has rust the vibrating will only increase the chemical process and spread the rust and holes quicker.
would you be happy with any brand new product that was covered in rust and holes already where it is such poor welding?
thanks for all input though folks, greatly received.

[dan_1207]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

The day the machine was delivered it was put under cover but even if not you wouldn't expect it to rust within a week and also have welding and structural defects. surely if it's a machine built to use and last outdoors it should withstand some rain. I could understand if I had been using the machine for several months but it was brand new and never used. when the salesman came out to my site I was led to believe that it is built to last and rust etc would come in time with age and usage which I totally understand but as the machine holds 2 tonne in the hopper and vibrates intensely the main welding defects and rusts are on the main part and anything that has rust the vibrating will only increase the chemical process and spread the rust and holes quicker.
would you be happy with any brand new product that was covered in rust and holes already where it is such poor welding?
thanks for all input though folks, greatly received.

My point was a simple one: if you leave a metal machine outside in heavy rain, it's likely to rust. I have no idea whether that machine is designed to withstand heavy rain.

I would not, however, expect the other defects.

[des8]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

Assuming you bought this machine as a business to business contract, your rights will depend on your contract.
Your consumer rights may have been curtailed.
If you post up a suitably redacted copy we may be able to advise you further.

Certainly the machine seems not to be as described or of satisfactory quality, but it depends on your contract as to what rights you have,

[peachyman]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

many thanks for this. I will try and get a copy of it up later. much appreciated.

[MissFM]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

A car (clearly designed to withstand rain), or a machine (which necessarily isn't). Think about it!

Actually I did (think about it!).

The OP's machine sounds to have a similar need for durability as a lot of agricultural machinery - ie made of metal, heavy duty, needs to perform in and withstand all weather. A car is just a more generally used metal machine that also has those requirements. All will eventually succumb to rust - but being "covered in rust" in the first week is not acceptable & is evidence that the metal was not properly finished, sealed or protected. Bagging aggregates is hardly an exclusively indoor occupation. And if the welding is faulty too....


In the OP's shoes I would, as Des advised above, send a letter before action and start planning a claim. The machine clearly is neither as described nor fit for purpose and the manufacturer has been told this.

Good luck, Peachyman! x

PS - do you have an assurance in writing that using the machine 'will not affect your legal rights'? If so - wouldn't it mitigate your losses (and also possibly expose any further shortcomings) to use it? x

[peachyman]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

I am starting to put a claim together and even though the supplier has said that it will not affect my legal rights it will as it is shown as accepting the goods so unfortunately until the matter us resolved I will continue to suffer losses. I have already had to lay 1 employee of due to this as it was going to be their sole job operating the machine.
many thanks for all the input though folks and please keep it coming. Every little helps

[des8]

Re: brand new machine covered in rust refusal of refund over £12000

When completed, if you want, post up a suitably redacted copy of your "Letter before Claim" so it can be given the once over, together with your purchase contract.