Biomass heating installation issues

[patterdalelas]

Hello all.Have found this forum whilst looking for advice about our domestic biomass installation that has gone/is still going horribly wrong.
Hoping for advice from anyone who has experience of this.

[meellis]

Re: Biomass

What sort of problems do you have, dealt with a few installs myself and can't get my head around the greenness of them. I know a lot of the companies involved really aren't that competent mainly due to the fact that there is good money for them in green initiatives to install which has drawn in the business men more than the quality engineer.

[patterdalelas]

Re: Biomass

well, to cut a very long story short,the install was a shambles,it started may last year and still has lots of snags.The council got involved as there was no planning app from the installers.Planning chap got Hetas involved and their engineer came up with lots of faults.The company stopped all comms and have now gone into liquidation.
We are left with a boiler that we cannot use again having paid out just over £12-000 for it.

[meellis]

Re: Biomass

So sorry to hear of the problems. I am a heating engineer and two of my very rich customers have had installed due to the investment it was sold to them as. The quality of design and understanding of the workforce left me bewildered to be honest. A lot of companies involved seem to be based around business men who see it as a get rich scheme but don't understand the technicalities involved. Heating companies who have a greater understanding don't get involved for the sheer cost and implications involved in keeping up with the office protocols needed. Are the snags able to be remedied at a cost or is it better to consider it a dead duck? Even though I know we need to consider the green options I do feel that the companies and salesmen involved at the moment are going to create such a bad reputation for these technologies which should work ok if installed in a correct manner.

[patterdalelas]

Re: Biomass

So sorry to hear of the problems. I am a heating engineer and two of my very rich customers have had installed due to the investment it was sold to them as. The quality of design and understanding of the workforce left me bewildered to be honest. A lot of companies involved seem to be based around business men who see it as a get rich scheme but don't understand the technicalities involved. Heating companies who have a greater understanding don't get involved for the sheer cost and implications involved in keeping up with the office protocols needed. Are the snags able to be remedied at a cost or is it better to consider it a dead duck? Even though I know we need to consider the green options I do feel that the companies and salesmen involved at the moment are going to create such a bad reputation for these technologies which should work ok if installed in a correct manner.

We will be paying to sort out the problems,its too big and too expensive not to.We have no oil heating anymore as the company decommissioned it when installing the biomass.
We are applying to RAF Benevolent fund for help as they have helped us in the past (husband ex-military).
We just want the faults sorted as when its running well we are very happy with it.We want to stop these people doing this to others.We have discovered that the directors have 12 other companies along the same lines!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Biomass

Can you name the company that undertook the installation ? Might be worth having a look into if there are issues then others may be able to take that information into account if considering a supplier/installer of biomass in the future.

[meellis]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

One of the properties I look after, I have for years, had it installed into the main house and the cottages. Another company carried out the install and I had to connect into the properties which caused arguments because the biomass company wanted to remove the oil heating but I installed it so the oil came in if the biomass didn't keep up which I guessed it wouldn't for various technical reasons. The client spent around £160,000 on the install but he gets 9p back for every 5p of fuel he burns, the projected return over the course of grant will be in the region of 1.25million. Because he will get his initial investment back quicker the more fuel he burns the heating is now on more than ever so ask yourself how green it is. Every week the boiler has to be turned off to be cleaned and because of the heat in the system this takes a day to cool, clean and re-heat so they are glad that the oil comes back in automatically. In the coldest weather they will burn 10 tonnes a fortnight and the store only holds 10 tonnes so they run out quite regular as well. The other property is owned by a customer who owns is own bank and because he was persuaded that he didn't need auto changeover to the existing system he as now lost some tenants because they were fed up of getting cold in the winter. I am all for green technology but the companies involved tend to be after the money involved more that to save the planet.

[patterdalelas]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

The company concerned are Renewable Solutions based in Liverpool/Merseyside.
I wasnt sure wether im allowed to name them on here.
We cant be the only ones im sure. I know of two people who have installed pellet boilers(ours is wood,not pellet) and they are not happy with their systems either.

[Amethyst]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

the biomass company wanted to remove the oil heating

Meellis - Why would the biomass co want the oil heating to be removed completely ? Do they get anything extra for removal or is it purely through their lack of knowledge of their own systems ?


ASA ruled against Renewable Solutions UK Ltd in 2013 - https://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjud...x#.VZ4oOPnAle0 for being unable to evidence their systems were 400% efficient.. lol
mind you, Dimplex state their heat pump systems are 400% efficient too so presumably it's an industry wide claim.

The directors of liquidated company Renewable Solutions UK Ltd do have quite a few other interests.

Director 1

GROVEWOOD MECHANICAL SERVICES LIMITED Company is dissolved - went into administration March 2007
AFFORDABLE HEATING LIMITED Company is dissolved
INTELLIGENT RENEWABLES LTD Non trading
LOWES STEWART DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED Active
RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS UK LIMITED In Liquidation

Director 2

HEAT 4 FREE LTD Non trading
CHESHIRE GOURMET LTD Non trading
GENIUS ENERGY SOLUTIONS LIMITED Non trading
LOWES STEWART DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED Active
AMAZING ENERGY SOLUTIONS LIMITED Non trading
INTELLIGENT RENEWABLES LTD Non trading
CLEVER ENERGY SYSTEMS LIMITED Non trading
SMART GRASS LIMITED Non trading
GREAT ENERGY SOLUTIONS LIMITED Non trading
SMART ENERGY (UK) LIMITED Company is dissolved ( went into administration July 2009)
AFFORDABLE HEATING LIMITED Company is dissolved
BUSINESS HEAT 4 FREE LTD Non trading
CHESHIRE POTS LTD Non trading
RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS UK LIMITED In Liquidation

This kind of situation is why the rules on phoenix companies need sorting out.

[lancsman]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

Meellis - Why would the biomass co want the oil heating to be removed completely ? Do they get anything extra for removal or is it purely through their lack of knowledge of their own systems ?

Hi there guys and gals I.m Patterdale Lass's other half.
Allegedly they were forced into removing the oil central heating because they said it had to be a stand alone system to qualify for R.H.I. payments!
Have checked Companies house and found their site to be difficult to use but Companycheck showed loads of Companies they are /have created. Trading Standards contacted me today and want all the details AND i contacted our local M.P. yesterday.
The insurers Renewables were obliged to pay deposit and breakdown cover to because of Govt rules have been contacted...So it rolls on!!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

Yep company check is best for finding out other companies run by directors - beta.companieshouse.gov.uk is good for getting the documents ( accounts / directors details etc - see https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history ) of current companies, and companies house webcheck is for older companies. The new beta companies house site will improve over time, it was only launched a couple weeks back.

03 Jun 2015

Statement of affairs with form 4.19

View PDF (6 pages) is probably of most interest.

Anyway, good to hear you have got the interest of trading standards, having your MP on side will assist too.

Allegedly they were forced into removing the oil central heating because they said it had to be a stand alone system to qualify for R.H.I. payments!

[MENTION=27588]meellis[/MENTION] I think will know whether that is actually the case (as I know nothing about heating systems whatsoever )

[meellis]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

RHI is the problem the companies face, they sell the systems as an investment due to the returns from the incentive (like solar electric). The companies are glorified sales companies backed by wealthy business due to the fact that there is good money to be made. They cannot design a system to incorporate existing heating systems because the grant providers need to know that you are only being paid for the energy being produced by the Biomass. It can be done but it is way above the skill level of the companies involved and significantly hits there profit margin.
In certain circumstances heat pumps can be 400% efficient but these circumstances come together very rarely.

[lancsman]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

Thanks Amythist early days yet but busy furnishing Trading Standards with everything we've got!!!

[lancsman]

Re: Biomass heating installation issues

Thanks Amythist early days yet but busy furnishing Trading Standards with everything we've got!!!

The latest is that I.W.A. 20 Billing Road Northampton NN1 5AW
www.iwa.biz are refusing to honour the guarantee registered by Renewable Solutions.We have informed R.E.C.C. and are now at our wits end...