Hello

[thelifecoach]

Hello everyone,

I'm not sure that I'm saying 'Hello' in the correct way.... but just to say that I wish I had found this site a long time ago! Today I'm posting a long letter to Lloyds for my partner, on the appalling way they treated him, when he was suffering severe financial hardship. It all happened a few years ago, but he is still suffering financially from their treatment and it has left him with a poor credit rating. We were so traumatised by it, that we didn't want to face going through everything to write a letter... but we took a deep breath and did it. It took a long time to prepare.. the case was horrendously complicated, and even writing the letter caused us both distress, but we're relieved we've done it and it will be in the post today. I hope they take the time to read it.

[Kati]

Re: Hello

Hi thelifecoach, and to LB!

Do you want to go into more detail?? Maybe post up a copy of the letter you mention (with identifying details left out)??

Kati x

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

Hi thelifecoach, and to LB!

Do you want to go into more detail?? Maybe post up a copy of the letter you mention (with identifying details left out)??

Kati x

Hi Kati.

The letter is (unbelievably) 9 pages long and anyone attempting to read it would probably lose the will to live but in a nutshell, a very common story.

A separation, informing the bank accordingly, ex-wife continuing to spend on joint account, the husband working massive hours to continue paying the repayment mortgage (when the interest rate was very high) her utility bills, a loan repayment (for things in the marital home, but he signed the paperwork alone).

He told the bank he was suffering hardship and requested the joint account to be frozen, which they eventually did, but they kept applying interest which sent it over the overdraft limit, incurring large fees. He had transferred all of the direct debits into his sole account. The stress of the situation triggered appendicitis which developed into peritonitis. He continued to pay the mortgage on the family home for 18 months. He wanted to stop but his ex wouldn't communicate and they had children, so he was concerned about them having a roof over their head. In 18 months he paid a 5 figure sum in mortgage repayments. He slept on his sister's sofa. That's when I met him.

He decided that he needed to rent a property. He stopped the payments relating to the marital home and she started to pay the mortgage and went straight to the CSA. He was then paying rent, CSA, and all of the usual utilities, plus solicitor bills. The interest on the joint account kept accumulating and the account went into Collections, who literally hounded him. He had calls from them when he was working, in the evenings, over the weekends and yet the amount they were chasing was caused by their own interest continuing to be applied to a frozen account. I was in a separate room to him one day when he took a call on his mobile.

I could hear someone shouting, but the phone wasn't on speaker. He was already on medication for high blood pressure (the bank were aware of this) and often I had to pay for his prescriptions, because he literally had no money for them. I fed him too! And bought him some basic furniture. Initially he sat on deckchairs in his lounge, borrowed from his parents! I took over the call, (it was Collections again) with his permission, and I got shouted at too! I asked (at the beginning) for the call to be recorded. We both wrote a letter of complaint to the bank, sent recorded delivery the next day, asking for a copy of the tape to go to their solicitor (the lady on the phone had said she was putting the account into default) and for a copy to be sent to us. We received a reply stating the tape had been destroyed.

The bank made no attempt to help him. I liaised with the manager of collections and suggested a debt consolidation, with a monthly payment to clear it. It was refused. I then suggested that they reduce the loan repayment to £75 per month and that by reducing that, he could also pay £25 per month into the joint account to reduce the balance. This was agreed. BUT on several occasions they attempted to take the original loan repayment amount, which triggered a return direct debit charge. In addition, the £25 transferred between the two accounts kept being returned. It appeared that he wasn't sticking to the arrangement, but it was failing because the bank had frozen the account and it wouldn't accept payments!

I was told to take cash into the bank, which I did, but I was humiliated when the cashier loudly declared 'You can't do that, this account is frozen!' I could go on. Well I did.... for 9 pages of my letter.

Then there was the joint mortgage. He couldn't get his name taken off. His and her solicitors corresponded asking him to agree to it changing to interest only, so that she could afford the payments. He did. Then they wrote again, asking him to sign another form to that effect, stating that the mortgage was in arrears (she hadn't been paying it every month after he stopped) and she had had to use her ISA (?????) to clear the arrears. Yes, she had paid over £3000 arrears from an ISA which he kew nothing about. When we asked the bank why they weren't chasing her, they told us that they chase the person who communicates with them! That was his downfall. At one point, he was unable to do so much overtime (probably when he was in hospital) so his salary dropped and he went over his personal overdraft by about £20. This incurred a £30 or £35 fee. This happened a few times which made a massive difference to the finances of someone who couldn't actually afford to buy much food!

We had asked Collections to ring me, and not him, because of his blood pressure, but still they hounded him with calls. I was concerned about his health and well being and suggested bankruptcy. We sought knowledge from three experts, but he didn't want to do it. He felt like a criminal.

Then he received a letter confirming the 'mortgage arrears arrangement' that had been made. He had no knowledge of this, so he rang them to be told that only 'one party' on the joint mortgage needs to request and agree to an arrangement. We asked for documentary evidence of this. None came. Ultimately he declared himself bankrupt. He had three creditors. The bank, the solicitor and myself. I would never have demanded my money back. The solicitor would have taken instalments. The bank? Well, they just kept adding interest and charges. At one point, the manager in collections did manage to freeze the interest (so it could be done) but after a year or so, it started again.

I paid the £600 for his bankruptcy. He owed the bank just over £4k when he went bankrupt, having reduced the personal loan hugely over this period. His personal account, the joint account, the loan, his credit card (he continued to make the minimum payment on this every month and didn't spend on it at all) and the mortgage were all with the one bank, which is where his salary was paid in. We have all correspondence. He lost everything, including his half of the equity in the house. His ex-wife had strung out the divorce and financial settlement for years (on legal aid) and only chose to move forward to final settlement, after his bankruptcy.

She was awarded 49% of his pension - which he hasn't been able to transfer to her because of the large transfer fee involved! She then managed to get a 'mortgage rescue' deal, despite stating on the paperwork that she had no debt arrangements, but we had seen her Form E which implied that she did. The court, of course, wasn't interested in that. Today he is a shell of a man, in many ways. The property he has rented since 2007 is up for sale and his choices now are limited, because of his discharged bankrupt status, which propelled me into persuading him to write to the bank. But raking it all up again has been a very painful experience. That's the shortened version!

[Kati]

Re: Hello

WOW :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

That's a lot ... I'm so sorry that this has happened.

Hopefully your letter to the bank will make a difference to you both!!

If you need any help/advice, I am sure there are lots of people here on LB who will be willing to jump in

Kati x

[Amethyst]

Re: Hello

If you are worried about the length of the letter and someone actually reading it then please post it up, we might be able to help you break it down so it is more digestible and format it into a complaint that will get looked at.

What outcome are you asking for ?

Have you ever sent a formal subject access request to the bank?

So main issues.... joint account, loan and mortgage, all with HSBC and financial difficulty following relationship breakdown.

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

Thank you :-)

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

If I'm honest, I'm a little scared about posting it - could someone from Lloyds be on here and, if so, could it jeopardise the claim if the content has been made public?

We have asked for the charges to be refunded, with interest. We have asked for the interest which continued to be applied to the joint account, to be refunded.. again with interest. We have asked for compensation for the stress being hounded by collections caused him, for the time we both spent on trying to communicate with the banks to resolve this (they never once suggested any way forward, apart from taking it to their solicitors which we were quite happy for them to do, but despite their threats, they didn't) and for the fact that the bank was the main reason that he declared himself bankrupt. The manager of collections did refund some of the charges, so in fairness we haven't claimed those.

Those are the main issues.. all with Lloyds TSB as they were at the time. Sorry, I don't know what a formal subject access request is?

[Amethyst]

Re: Hello

Okay that's understandable , do you want to email it to me and I'll go through it.

Admin@legalbeagles.info


A subject access request is a way of requesting the bank send you copies of all information they hold on you, this would include screen notes e telephone calls and transaction lists so could be very useful in your complaint. I think it might be wise to do that prior to making the complaint too. I'll draft something shortly.

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

I should have found this site sooner..... before I sent the letter :-(

Could I still do a subject access request?

Thanks for your help :-)

[Kati]

Re: Hello

you can send a SAR request any time you decide to :tinysmile_grin_t: something along the lines of

(your full name and address)

(The date)

(Name and address of the organisation)

Dear Sir or Madam

Subject access request

(Your full name and address and any other details to help identify you and the information you want.)

Please supply the information about me I am entitled to under the Data Protection Act 1998 relating to: *******
(give specific details of the information you want, for example

• your personnel file;
• emails between ‘A’ and ‘B’ (between 1/6/11 and 1/9/11);
• your medical records (between 2006 & 2009) held by Dr ‘C’ at ‘D’ hospital;
• CCTV camera situated at (‘E’ location) on 23/5/12 between 11am and 5pm;
• copies of statements (between 2006 & 2009) held in account number xxxxx).

If you need any more information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible.

It may be helpful for you to know that a request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998 should be responded to within 40 days.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer.

If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113 or at www.ico.org.uk


Yours faithfully
(Signature)

Kati x

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

Brilliant - thank you

[Tools]

Re: Hello

Here is also another which requests ALL data they hold on you

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...=1813#post1813

[thelifecoach]

Re: Hello

An update. I sent the letter to Lloyds by 'signed for' first class post.

After a week, I checked online but there was no Royal Mail receipt confirmation. I took this up with Royal Mail who informed me that post to larger organisations is often not signed for individually. The recipient signs a sheet which covers all 'signed for' post received on any one day. They believe my letter to be 'lost' but I have to wait 21 working days them to confirm that it has been lost.

Once I receive that confirmation, I will be taking the matter further with Royal Mail, but my top tip for others is DON'T use 'signed for'. Use 'recorded delivery' which I 'believe' has better tracking. But, I had a gut feeling that the letter HAD been delivered... although I had received no acknowledgement from Lloyds.

It was posted on Thurs 4th September. Last Monday (15th Sept) my partner and I had a day off, so made numerous phone calls to 'phone banking' where we explained the situation and asked to be put through to the local branch, to ask if the letter had been received.

On each attempt, we were told the lines to the bank were busy. My partner asked for a call back to me, giving authority for me at act as third party. No call came. Nor did it come on Tues am, so I tweeted and that resulted in a call from Lloyds Social Media who offered to put me through to branch! I was told that they wouldn't have opened the mail - it goes to central processing and is then sent on to the relevant dept. I asked to be put through to 'complaints' and was given a number to ring. I rang it.... and ended up with Phone Banking again.

I explained the situation and was told that without my partner being present, they couldn't even look on their system. I explained I had third party authority but was told they needed me to have Power of Attorney. I argued the point, quoting dates and names I had discussed the account with, but to no avail. However I was told that I could ring back when my partner arrived home from work, because they were there 24hrs. Sooooooo at 6pm I rang again, with my partner present. He was going out at 7pm to play pool, so that gave us ample time.... or did it? After a 5 minute queuing time, my call was answered. At that point, I stared recording the call.

After a lengthy conversation with the Lloyds employee talking to her manager and trying to direct me to Branch (I told her I had already spoken to Branch) I was told that she would put me through to a 'specialist dept'. Excellent. The call was taken by an Indian lady - I suspect at a call centre in India. She couldn't bring up the account details. I advised the account was closed and all I needed to know was whether the letter had been received. I was advised to ring the Branch. I explained I had already done that and needed to speak to the complaints dept to establish whether the letter had been received. I was told they do not have a complaints dept! I asked her to repeat that. We do not have a complaints dept! What dept are you? Collections!

She spoke to her manager several times and then concluded that she could not help me. After ending the call, I immediately rang the Phone Banking line again, waited 5 mins to get through and once again, patiently explained the situation. This time the girl I spoke to seemed pretty switched on although I think once again, she told me to ring the branch! I told her I wanted to speak to the complaints dept. Once again, she referred to her manager... several times. She actually mentioned that I had been put through to collections because my complaint was about collections - interesting because she was telling me things I hadn't told her, so I deduce she was actually seeing the account communications! I argued the point that the complaint was NOT about collections, although they formed part of it! The complaint was about Lloyds! By this point, my walk-around phone was beeping because the battery was going.
"The battery on this phone is going, please can you call me back?"
"No, this is an inbound call-centre".
"Please can I ring you back from another phone and speak to you?"
"No".
So I held, whilst she went off to speak to the complaints dept.

My stress levels were rising. She spoke to my partner to clear security and went off again. When she came back I said "My phone battery is going to die", but I was told my partner would need to pass security with the complaints dept.

She connected us, reading her script whilst we were both saying "this phone is going to die". The man from complaints said "I need to ask you some security questions" - the phone was beeping like mad by this time and showing zero battery.

My partner rushed out the responses and then said "please can you call us back?" "what's your number?" My partner gave the number and the reply? "That's the number I have on this letter!" I started to say something and the phone died. Thankfully he rang back and we were able to pick up the other handset!

My partner gave authority for me to speak on his behalf. The guy from complaints started to apologise and said he was emailing the person who had been allocated the complaint to ask her to 'update us'. I explained that all we wanted to know was whether the letter had been received and that we had been on the phone for over an hour, that evening alone. He apologised again. I told him that we had rung on Monday and that I had also spoken to Lloyds that afternoon and that during the evening calls I had been told there was no complaints dept. I added that I had recorded the calls of that evening. He said they had recorded the call too and I advised there was more than one call and that they should both be reviewed.

So - Royal Mail fail and Lloyds fail again. That was on Tues 16th. On Friday 19th we received a letter - dated 12th Sept, which oddly didn't appear on the system when we spoke to complaints on the 16th.. I suspect it had been backdated because they only have 5 days to acknowledge and the letter was received by complaints on Monday 8th Sept! Their letter was an acknowledgement of our letter. I kept the envelope, in the hope that the code numbers printed on there as it passed through the postal system will reveal when it was sent!

I told the guy in complaints that I was dealing with them on behalf of my partner, because of his high blood pressure, but by the end of the call I could barely breath. I had to use my GTN spray and was poorly all evening and into the following day! I regard myself as a strong person, but I swear Lloyds will end up killing both of us! This is the main reason that we didn't raise the complaint before. I can't imagine what a pensioner would do in our position! Now we are waiting to see how they respond to the complaint, but I am so grateful that I have over an hour of clear recording of those phone calls, although I'm not sure whether it would be admissible in court?

[MIKE770]

Re: Hello

split the paragraphs up if you would, as it is set out too long and peeps may not bother to wade thru it??

[Amethyst]

Re: Hello

done