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My business died before it even began...

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  • My business died before it even began...

    My name is "Mad", I'm using this Alias because some people I know do not currently know the situation behind what has happened to me. And I'm a little paranoid about online identities. Before I begin, I'll let you know why I have hidden my name - I borrowed money from friends and family to help get my business off the ground... You'll see why it's a bad thing when you read below.

    I'll cut right to the chase, I was buying up assets so I could start my own company as a web designer / graphic designer. But everything went south when I purchased a copy of Adobe Suite CS6 for £1,199. I thought it was a fair price, considering I'd used the previous version and I was familiar with it. Plus I wanted legit software for a company, in case of inspection or questioning etc. So I paid. No questions asked. Throughout the day I continued to purchase some more items from the same company, another £359.99 was spent for a laptop computer.

    6 days later - and even though I'd paid £44.99 for "Next Day" delivery, I was still without my items... I was a little worried. So I decided to phone them, and so after 30 minutes on hold and not one single person ever knowing about this "company" I finally get through to a man named Richard. He says that he is the owner of the company, and he was in a tight spot with my software. He told me this - I'll quote as best I can -

    We have the software you purchased, but because you purchased and paid for online, you'll only be given the code... But the code will only work on the Email address you used when you registered an account with us.
    So I thought, okay - Perhaps it's in my inbox, but just as quick as I'd opened my computer - I realized that couldn't be true. I'd never made an account because they didn't have a "Register" button on the top of the page... After 20 minutes of me saying I was prepared to take this to legal, he finally decided to give me an activation code. Followed by an apologetic approach telling me that the Laptop would not be delivered because they didn't have it in stock - despite the website saying they had 82 in stock. He refunded me there and then, and the full value came back within a couple of days. But the nightmare was just beginning...

    I'd tried the activation code he gave me, and he had told me that it would take 24 hours before he could "activate" the code for use. When I finally attempted to use the code, I got an error... One that made me want to cry...

    "This code is not a valid product key" of sorts. I got back on the phone, and told him that the code did not work - he re-read the code to me again, this time with a 1 instead of an I. I accepted and tried again, failure... Annoyed, I demanded he refund me the value of £1,199 to my account as I had paid for an item I had not received and that the item was not working...

    To which he responded. "Didn't you know the Sales of Goods Act does not cover Software? I'm not helping you here. Goodbye!" and hung up the phone! I almost cried... I demanded more information. I called back, and got through to a new voice - "Sarah" I'll call her, as she would not disclose her name and refused profusely to give me any information about herself, such as her name, her employed job title etc. She'd told me that "In order to receive a refund, I need to return the product in its original unopened packaging"... This is insane? I hadn't received any physical product - I told her this. To which she responded "We sent you the product on the day of purchase. How do you have access to the serial number, if you have not received it? Please confirm your address" etc. So I did. After 20 minutes on the phone, I started to well up - I'd realized my future as a self employed web designer / graphic designer was already over...

    She told me to call her back within 24 hours if the product did not work... It has already been 72 since I've not been able to use my phone. I will be calling her back tomorrow, but I'm really upset now. Is there any legal standing for me here? I didn't get the product in physical form, I was only refunded for the laptop, which never existed... And they're refusing to give me back my money for £1,199 Adobe - when I never even got the product! They insist that I return it, or I do not get a refund! How can I?!

    Please help me.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: My business died before it even began...

    How did you pay ? If you paid through a Visa Credit or Debit card you should be covered under sec 75 of the Consumer Credit Act as the purchase was over £100.

    What is the name of the company you 'purchased from' ? (PM me with it if you like just so I can have a nosey into them)

    How did you download the Adobe software (presumably you downloaded it first to get to the bit where you enter your serial number - I've had a couple trial versions of creative adobe photoshop and whatnot before)

    I'll have a look into SOGA and software purchases.

    http://thestudentlawyer.com/2013/05/...ssed-as-goods/
    http://www.shoosmiths.co.uk/client-r...ices-1193.aspx
    http://www.trglaw.com/news95.html

    Well that's not looking very good on the SOGA front, I don't think that is fatal as this is a non supply issue.
    #staysafestayhome

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My business died before it even began...

      SOGA still applies as the software does not work, ie it is defective. What they are getting confused with is the distance selling regulations where physically supplied software cannot be returned if the seal is broken.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My business died before it even began...

        Thanks for your response, I've been refreshing since making the post... It's sad I know, but this was my future to provide for myself.

        They're a major retailer - I don't want to name specifics as I've had trouble with them before.

        I guess the whole situation regarding "Fool me once" was merely a case of "Fool me twice" right here... As for the software, it was never delivered nor sent to me, not through postal or download, and the telephone support was awful. I was basically pushed from pillar to post with no effort or concern about my custom.

        I was simply told that the code would activate itself after a period of time, but it didn't - and now they're demanding that if I want a refund I am to return the product unopened in it's original packaging, which I find impossible since I have not received it, and they insist that I have. If I had received the item, why and how would they give me the code over the telephone?

        As for payment, yes, I paid direct by card - which I was sure I was covered for, but I don't know the laws like you guys, I wish I did though!

        Originally posted by ostell View Post
        SOGA still applies as the software does not work, ie it is defective. What they are getting confused with is the distance selling regulations where physically supplied software cannot be returned if the seal is broken.
        But to warrant a refund, would I not have to demonstrate that the software is faulty? Which I cannot do as I do not have the software. All I have is a lousy code that doesn't register. Perhaps I should try contacting Adobe Support to see if the code is even genuine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My business died before it even began...

          That might be a good idea re Adobe support to see if the code is genuine and why it doesn't work. http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud.html

          Did you enter the code following a trial or download through adobe ?
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My business died before it even began...

            SOGA states that during the first 6 months they have to prove that an item is not faulty.

            Go through your card supplier because you have been supplied with defective goods (the activation code). Get them to pull back the charge from the supplier. Laptop as well if you haven't got the money back for that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My business died before it even began...

              Ostelll - Ref SOGA - http://thestudentlawyer.com/2013/05/...ssed-as-goods/ - interesting article as Case Law references - quite recent too. Worth looking into separately I think.


              Nb for Mad - You might be better doing monthly Creative Cloud now rather than CS6 btw xx
              #staysafestayhome

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My business died before it even began...

                Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                That might be a good idea re Adobe support to see if the code is genuine and why it doesn't work. http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/creativecloud.html

                Did you enter the code following a trial or download through adobe ?
                Yes, I tried the code on the trail version - I even attempted to use the code on multiple variations of products - to no avail. Which isn't very good. And the fact some parts of the code don't enter properly - for example the letter "E" will not enter on the 4th key press because it is not recognized as a valid format. Hence the original post when I mentioned about the 1's possibly being I's but after testing I found they didn't work in either instance. I also found the contact page - http://www.adobe.com/uk/company/contact.html but it looks like they're out of hours for the moment, so I may call them first thing in the morning. Which would be best as I'd get a chance to cool off and take a moment to think about this whole thing. Since it happened to me, I've literally been panicking about every little thing. That creative cloud you linked though, from £20 (Roughly) a month is a great idea, when or if I do get my money back from these people I'll definitely look into a monthly subscription.

                Originally posted by ostell View Post
                SOGA states that during the first 6 months they have to prove that an item is not faulty.

                Go through your card supplier because you have been supplied with defective goods (the activation code). Get them to pull back the charge from the supplier. Laptop as well if you haven't got the money back for that.
                I did a little more looking up and it appears to be a grey area with the SOGA on digital products, I've found a few places stating that because software is not "tangible" goods and that there is no exchange of physical property, they are not covered by Sales of Goods Act. Which isn't very re-assuring. Software is licensed too, which I guess makes it harder to prove if faulty. Another thing I noticed too, was that SOGA only covered the physical packaging and/or distributed media in which software is provided, which doesn't sound good for me, seeing as I have neither. Can someone correct me on this front though as I could be completely wrong!

                Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                Ostelll - Ref SOGA - http://thestudentlawyer.com/2013/05/...ssed-as-goods/ - interesting article as Case Law references - quite recent too. Worth looking into separately I think.


                Nb for Mad - You might be better doing monthly Creative Cloud now rather than CS6 btw xx

                I mentioned what you just said in the post, haha! But yes, I do think it's a better idea, definitely. As for that case reference, I'm definitely going to take a gander, I should be looking into this kind of thing really more often considering I wanted to run a business. I should know about this, but I've forgotten most of the things I learned throughout the years - be it from work or college/university I've lost most of it.

                That case article states the exact same thing I'd read elsewhere -

                However, software may be supplied in a medium, such as a disk, where the sale of the medium would be a sale governed by SOGA. Nevertheless, it has been argued that, ‘the software itself will be governed under the terms of a licence, which will define the scope of permitted use but which will not confer outright ownership’.
                Source: http://thestudentlawyer.com/2013/05/...ssed-as-goods/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My business died before it even began...

                  Okay - so a little bit more information on this matter

                  I found this page - https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/...al-number.html which has "Live Chat" on there - I've spoken with a rep from Adobe and they confirmed that the serial number provided to me is 3 digits too short and does not match any product code of theirs. What can I do now? Is this enough grounds for a refund?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My business died before it even began...

                    Can you pm me the company name pls (I won't tell it's just bugging me and googling the £44.99 Next Day delivery charge isn't getting me far ) - link to the product ordered would be interesting too.

                    The company have taken your money and not supplied you with anything - to me it sounds like a scam (hence wanting the company details) and you should be fine to reclaim through your credit card.
                    #staysafestayhome

                    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My business died before it even began...

                      Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                      Can you pm me the company name pls (I won't tell it's just bugging me and googling the £44.99 Next Day delivery charge isn't getting me far ) - link to the product ordered would be interesting too.

                      The company have taken your money and not supplied you with anything - to me it sounds like a scam (hence wanting the company details) and you should be fine to reclaim through your credit card.
                      I've PM'd you the details of it all - Do you think I have the right to a refund from here. Personally I think you'll be shocked... Which is why I was hesitant to give details.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My business died before it even began...

                        You're right ! I am.
                        #staysafestayhome

                        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My business died before it even began...

                          This bit in your original post doesn't make any sense now knowing what I know.

                          6 days later - and even though I'd paid £44.99 for "Next Day" delivery, I was still without my items... I was a little worried. So I decided to phone them, and so after 30 minutes on hold and not one single person ever knowing about this "company" I finally get through to a man named Richard. He says that he is the owner of the company, and he was in a tight spot with my software. He told me this - I'll quote as best I can -
                          I have Pm'd you again just till we suss out what the heck happened.
                          #staysafestayhome

                          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My business died before it even began...

                            Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                            This bit in your original post doesn't make any sense now knowing what I know.
                            When I called them, he told me his name was Richard - and that he was the owner of the company. That part of the post was my bad, I didn't think that would look as bad as it does now when thinking about it. (I mean the fact someone has told me that when they clearly are not) I'm just going to check something very quickly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My business died before it even began...

                              I think I am royally ****ed here.

                              0844 531 0110.

                              Go ahead. Call it. Please tell me that I can get the funding back... Dear god please tell me it's possible...

                              Comment

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