Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

[Sillybilly]

Good afternoon and hello from a newbie on the look out for some or any assistance and guidance

Have three lots of debt - bank loan (£10k) credit card (10k) and second credit card (5k)
Due to financial difficulties late 2007 / early 2008 i contacted the bank and card providers direct to arrange a greatly reduced monthly payment offer
This went ok until i was made redundant in April 09 which i again advised all parties concerned

Eventually secured employment but due to travel costs / insecurity (redundancy in the back ground) i never felt comfortable to re contact all parties or re -enter a payment plan i could not maintain
Due to a combination of other reasons and wrongly hoping that my income would evetually increase to allow me to properly contribute to this debt i have not paid anything towards them for 4 years now
Now facing redundancy next month and no new employment in the pipeline

With ref the bank loan which was originally taken out in Dec 01
Due to my mis selling complaint for the PPI section of this loan in 2008, my claim was upheld and the original loan should have been replaced and reduced to the correct figure
I have previoulsy signed and sent back a new agreement to resolve this in May 08
Back in May 11 the bank then admitted that they may have been a mistake in setting this new loan account up and another one was enclosed to send back
At the same time and even up to now the bank are still quoting the wrong figure and the original account no despite all of this

Should i instigate contact to confirm still the wrong figure etc ?
Should i even consider signing another loan agreement if they do in fact send another in response to any fresh contact ?
Can i complain with the fact that they would have appear to have lost or made another error with the replacement agreement i sent back ?
Will they still be able to obtain decree or similar considering the incorrect figure and paperwork ?

Credit Card Providers - one debt is with bank (originally 1997) which is sitting with Apex via Ruthbridge and the other debt is MBNA (activated 2007) via Arrow Global more recently Debt Manager Services
Have recived the usual letters & threats from numerous organisations
Brielfy requested a copy of the CCA etc to Allied International in Aug 09 regarding the MBNA debt but postal order was returned and advised to contact MBNA direct

Apologies for the long winded sob story & book like description but really at a loss on whether to generally recontact all parties direct to advise of up coming redundancy or go with the likes of Payplan to act on my behalf
Have seen other debt organisations claiming to help but seem to steer you to suit their own means rather help (may be wrong with this view)
Keen to start the ball rolling again in the next couple of days and being a house owner and having a family i cannot afford to take the wrong option
Any advice, tactics or pointers would be greatly received & thanks in advance
Cheers

[busytrev]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Hi,
I don't know what others on here think but I got some excellent debt free advice from these guys.

http://www.debtwizard.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

Good luck..

Even if you don't join you can still read all their forums..

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Hi,
I don't know what others on here think but I got some excellent debt free advice from these guys.

http://www.debtwizard.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

He could also get some good free advice from Legal Beagles… :ohwell:

I really see no reason to direct a new member to another forum, I'm not familiar with the forum in question but I notice they mention IVAs, which doesn't inspire much confidence in my book.

[PlanB]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Have three lots of debt - bank loan (£10k) credit card (10k) and second credit card (5k) . . . .

. . . . At the same time and even up to now the bank are still quoting the wrong figure and the original account no despite all of this . . .


Will they still be able to obtain decree or similar considering the incorrect figure and paperwork ?

. . . . . Have recived the usual letters & threats from numerous organisations
Brielfy requested a copy of the CCA etc to Allied International in Aug 09 regarding the MBNA debt but postal order was returned and advised to contact MBNA direct

. . . . . Keen to start the ball rolling again in the next couple of days and being a house owner and having a family i cannot afford to take the wrong option

Now I'm just being silly, but are you also Billysilly on another thread who has a similar problem?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Good afternoon and hello from a newbie on the look out for some or any assistance and guidance

Hello and welcome!

Have three lots of debt - bank loan (£10k) credit card (10k) and second credit card (5k)
Due to financial difficulties late 2007 / early 2008 i contacted the bank and card providers direct to arrange a greatly reduced monthly payment offer
This went ok until i was made redundant in April 09 which i again advised all parties concerned

Eventually secured employment but due to travel costs / insecurity (redundancy in the back ground) i never felt comfortable to re contact all parties or re -enter a payment plan i could not maintain
Due to a combination of other reasons and wrongly hoping that my income would evetually increase to allow me to properly contribute to this debt i have not paid anything towards them for 4 years now
Now facing redundancy next month and no new employment in the pipeline

With ref the bank loan which was originally taken out in Dec 01
Due to my mis selling complaint for the PPI section of this loan in 2008, my claim was upheld and the original loan should have been replaced and reduced to the correct figure
I have previoulsy signed and sent back a new agreement to resolve this in May 08
Back in May 11 the bank then admitted that they may have been a mistake in setting this new loan account up and another one was enclosed to send back
At the same time and even up to now the bank are still quoting the wrong figure and the original account no despite all of this

Should i instigate contact to confirm still the wrong figure etc ?
Should i even consider signing another loan agreement if they do in fact send another in response to any fresh contact ?
Can i complain with the fact that they would have appear to have lost or made another error with the replacement agreement i sent back ?
Will they still be able to obtain decree or similar considering the incorrect figure and paperwork ?

Can you clarify? Are you saying you signed a new credit agreement in May 2008 and they are asking you to sign yet another one? That sounds extremely cheeky on their part!

No, you shouldn't even consider signing a new agreement, they are playing cheeky buggers with this, the original agreement from 2001 was probably unenforceable.

Are you being hassled for this debt? because if you haven't paid anything in 4 years, it's only got 2 left to go (only one if you happened to be in Scotland) before it goes Statute Barred, and you should be very careful not to do anything that could acknowledge the debt, such as reclaims, etc.

Credit Card Providers - one debt is with bank (originally 1997) which is sitting with Apex via Ruthbridge and the other debt is MBNA (activated 2007) via Arrow Global more recently Debt Manager Services
Have recived the usual letters & threats from numerous organisations
Brielfy requested a copy of the CCA etc to Allied International in Aug 09 regarding the MBNA debt but postal order was returned and advised to contact MBNA direct

What I would do is send a new CCA request with a paragraph reminding them that they have acquired the duties and obligations along with the rights and that it's their responsibility to obtain the documents from the original creditor. Send the letter Recorded Delivery with a PO for £1 and sign using a computer font rather than your real signature to be on the safe side. They have 14 days to respond.

Dear Sirs

Account No: xyz

I hereby formally request a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement, pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974).

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties. Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

The OFT has stipulated that 'sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements'. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:
· a copy of their agreement
· copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
· a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:
· make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
· get a court judgment against the debtor

In line with the above, please find attached my £1 payment, which is the statutory fee - note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose. I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit (12 + 2 days).

Yours faithfully,

Apologies for the long winded sob story & book like description but really at a loss on whether to generally recontact all parties direct to advise of up coming redundancy or go with the likes of Payplan to act on my behalf
Have seen other debt organisations claiming to help but seem to steer you to suit their own means rather help (may be wrong with this view)
Keen to start the ball rolling again in the next couple of days and being a house owner and having a family i cannot afford to take the wrong option
Any advice, tactics or pointers would be greatly received & thanks in advance
Cheers

Don't do anything yet, as you haven't paid in 4 years, you are more than half way through to statute barred, if you start setting up repayment plans, or even discussing the possibility, you will be re-setting the clock and the past 4 years will have been wasted!

Payplan and similar organisations are funded by the creditors, they will not suggest following the CCA route described above, they will expect you to pay and lose your 4 years!

I have been following the CCA route since 2010, MBNA is one of my creditors and I haven't heard from them in 2 years, after they were forced to admit they couldn't find my agreement!

Arrow Global are known to get trigger-happy and issue court papers, the best way to cover yourself is to fire off the CCA request above as soon as possible, the accounts will be unenforceable until they produce a properly executed agreement, which they may not be able to produce at all!

[busytrev]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

He could also get some good free advice from Legal Beagles… :ohwell:

I really see no reason to direct a new member to another forum, I'm not familiar with the forum in question but I notice they mention IVAs, which doesn't inspire much confidence in my book.

I never for one minute suggested that he wouldn't get good free advice from LB. I was merely given him an option and I still stand by what I said there are some very useful and informative threads there as there are here. I've been in a similar situation myself and trust me any advice is worth listening to. As for directing new members to other forums I've seen many many links on threads in here advising people to visit other forums and the links have been posted by established members.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Duplicate post

[Celestine]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

Now I'm just being silly, but are you also Billysilly on another thread who has a similar problem?

Nope! Totally different user!

[Sillybilly]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

just a quick thanks to all for the replies and advice

firstly not Billiysilly - never gave it a thought to check other users for clashing before registering

based in Scotland too so the statue barred timescales is shorter and only another year i think
have previously held off from offering new payment plans tail end of last year due to this same technicality
still a bit worried and nervous at the thought of lasting a year especially when creditors will be aware of the same too

will heed Flaming Parrots advice and try the CAA route again with Arrow and MDNA as delaying tactic
yep i did in fact send the new agreement back to Clydesdale back in 2008 but my gut reaction is that they have lost this, hence whey they asked me to do it again at a later date (which havent) which rung alarm bells with me too
daft question but considering this confusion with these agreements would it be prudent to address the CCA to the wrongly detailed loan account number or just a standard letter disputing what they are still chasing as its incorrect and to investigate and advise
cheers

[PlanB]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

will heed Flaming Parrots advice and try the CAA route again with Arrow and MDNA as delaying tactic

Oh yes :bounce:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

just a quick thanks to all for the replies and advice

firstly not Billiysilly - never gave it a thought to check other users for clashing before registering

No worries, your username is inverted so we won't get you mixed up again. :grin:

based in Scotland too so the statue barred timescales is shorter and only another year i think

Even better! :clock: :clock: :clock:

have previously held off from offering new payment plans tail end of last year due to this same technicality
still a bit worried and nervous at the thought of lasting a year especially when creditors will be aware of the same too

will heed Flaming Parrots advice and try the CAA route again with Arrow and MDNA as delaying tactic
yep i did in fact send the new agreement back to Clydesdale back in 2008 but my gut reaction is that they have lost this, hence whey they asked me to do it again at a later date (which havent) which rung alarm bells with me too
daft question but considering this confusion with these agreements would it be prudent to address the CCA to the wrongly detailed loan account number or just a standard letter disputing what they are still chasing as its incorrect and to investigate and advise
cheers

Theres something you have to be aware of with regards to the CCA process. Due to a change in the law, it's not practical to challenge the enforceability of agreements entered into on or after April 2007, s.127 of the CCA that prevented a court from issuing an enforcement order unless there was a properly executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms, was repealed at that time. In other words, it makes a big difference whether the agreement was entered into in 2001 or 2008!

If you haven't sent a s.77-79 CCA request, you can't dispute the account on these basis, nor will you know whether they have an agreement from 2008 or not. I would just quote the account number they are using when they write chasing you, and see what they produce to start with, that should clarify things with regards to the existence of an agreement from 2008 or otherwise. :thumb:

Those guys have no shame asking you to sign a new agreement! :mad2: :mad2:

[Sillybilly]

Re: Debt Muddle - Assistance Required

on the scrounge again if anybody can help
have received a Citation from Sheriff Court via my bank regarding my bank loan
as per the citation i have the options to admit the claim and apply for a time to pay direction or defend the action

the bank are still detailing the original loan no and what i believe as being the incorrect figure
have recently sent my CCA request to all creditors (including the bank) and have received no other replies or feedback yet (i know tempting fate)
have got various letters, one telling me original closed and new one to sign and then others with may have been a problem setting up a new one and hers another one

as the citation was raised after this CCA request do i automatically defend this
am i in a position to actually defend if they dont send the CCA before the 21 days
am i being too cynical assuming that they are going to fudge details to suit the big boy bank in front of the sheriff court
can the court (scottish law) look at the paperwork and just decide to allow the bank to progress - will there be another opportunity to get a time to pay if necessary
if i defend is it prudent to lodge the documents as late as possible
as worst case scenario would it be prudent to seek a solicitor to act on my behalf - previous expereince has been a lack of interest due to non entitlment to legal aid and spooked with the lack of payments to my debt
how do i explain my redundancy this month within my budget sheet

rambling on again so if anybody has any info or general help would be be obliged
thanks