Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

I've just been on to Shelter and basically they have just told me that its ok to have an English contract as long as they repossess your home under Scottish Law. I can't see how that can be the case! You sign a mortgage contract saying that if you don't do this, this and this they can take your home from you using a particular English Law. When that happens...they use another law from another country to take your home! She said she had spoken to the principle solicitor about the very same thing because lots of people have English T&Cs. My question is though...if that is the situation then why do they issue Scottish T&Cs with Scottish properties. I think this is another cop out.

She also said that a judge cannot tell the mortgage company not to add expenses...even if the action is dismissed! Are Shelter there to help people really????? They said I should not represent myself and a judge may say to go and get a solicitor and refuse to hear the case. It clearly states that I can represent myself and these cases are supposed to be such that people can represent themselves.

I'm sick now! I was feeling as if I had a good case but they said if they represented me they wouldn't even go down the T&Cs route...I would have to admit to the arrears...and be there purely for that! That's just not fair!

[Ruby]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

If the action is dismissed then you would essentially have won so I wouldn't worry too much about the expenses side of things. However I am sure Shelter know their onions with regard to the Scottish/English T & C's issue, so I would recommend you change your tactic. I am assuming this company are regulated by the FSA? As you say it is a regulated loan, have this company threated you fairly and followed the MCOB guidelines set out to protect people like you. If not they could be in for a very LARGE financial fine from the FSA.

This is a big can of worms and you do need someone professional, ideally representing you, or at the very least arming you with all the facts after looking at your credit agreement and T & C's with great detail, plus all the communication you have had with the company.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

That's only one avenue of attack Ruby. They have consistently refused any offers to sort this out other than me offering to give them at least £100 extra a month. The arrears have been added to the original loan amount which means I am paying interest (interest only mortgage) on the whole amount. This means that even if they capitalised the monthly payment wouldn't change. The DWP payment pays the full monthly payment. They want the interest payment on the mortgage amount plus the arrears...plus....an additional £100 to pay towards the arrears. I don't know how legal that is because they are essentially getting interest twice on the same amount....increased monthly payment and paying the arrears off in addition to that....arrears being interest only payments. They are trying to say I owe over 22 months payments but all the arrears were accrued 4 years ago when I became ill and before I was able to claim benefits for interest payments. They have reduced by over £1000 during the last few years....that's obviously not good enough for them though. I feel so depressed now after speaking with Shelter.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Shelter said that a few things may happen on Friday. The judge might give them the decree, he may dismiss, he may continue to Proof or he may sist to see what payments are being made. The statement they have provided supporting the claim shows a different sum due than what they are claiming...that's another anomilie

[Ruby]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Is the amount they are claiming for More or less than the statement they have provided. If it is more then they would, I assume have added extra charges and interest.

The 22 months basically means that you are 22 payments behind. It doesn't matter how far back you started having financial problems and fell into arrears.

You would have to be really unlucky with the judge if he gave them the decree on the back of what you have said here.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Ruby, when I fell into arrears I was on a fixed rate and my monthly payments were £683 per month for a one bedroomed home. You can see that this would add up quickly. Now my payments are £260 per month but they are saying the arrears are equal to around 22 months...but they were all incurred around 4 years ago. No payments have been missed since that time, until I started to pay the interest payment on current bank of England base rate... They are saying I have been making token payments. I told them in a letter I was disputing the agreement and said we would need to negotiate a new agreement under Scottish T&Cs and until then I would pay BOE base rate. If they were going to repossess why wait 4 years...especially when £1000+ has been paid off? It just doesnt make sense.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

The balance is higher than the statement by almost £2000....there is no way they could have added that amount as the mortgage has been getting paid....albeit the smaller amount until the DWP started paying last month. The DWP payment covers all my monthly payment at the higher amount...ie original amount plus arrears interest

[Ruby]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Did they give a specific reason why they have given you the calling up notice? It can't just be out of spite because you queried parts of your agreement.
Can I ask what interest rate you are paying and have been paying since the start of the loan? The more info you can give the more I can possibly help. Are you sure it definately is a regulated loan? Does it say that at the top of your credit agreement.

Check out on the website whether this company are having any problems and more so complaints about them. There could be something going on internally which has triggered this situation.

The fact that you have been paying regular payments (one way or the other) plus reducing your arrears, albeit slowly will always stand you in good stead with the court.

Sorry I don't mean to be-little you....

[Magrew]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Hi Magrew, I don't know what you mean by the solicitor's statement doing me damage! There are no solicitors' statements.

I took this from your earlier post.

I had problems with the solicitor when I bought this house. He was negligent on one aspect and I had my fees reduced because of this. He then failed to record the deeds and now I find out that he has lied and said I saw the Scottish T&Cs when I didn't and can prove I have the English T&Cs. The guy has now left the firm...I think he was sacked.

If the lenders and the lawyer who actioned the agreement both say you had the Scottish T's&C's then it is two against one therefore your proof would need to be rock solid.

Unfortunately, Govan Law Centre only deals with cases in their jurisdiction.

Have they told you this? If it is true then they have changed their policy. I have used them frequently over the last 4 years while I lived in Orkney, Edinburgh and Midlothian. Admittedly not over a repossession but their charitable statement will be for the whole practice and I would be surprised if it alters for different legal specialisms. I have never lived in Govan no matter how much I look like Rab C Nesbit.

I would agree with you that you have a case but don't dismiss all solicitors. 95% of them give the others a bad name. All you have to do is find one of the 5%. I believe that a few of those 5% are employed by Govan Law Centre.

I have never taken an action through a Scottish Sheriff Court which I presume is where this case will be heard. Is it in your local court (Dunfermline or Kirkcaldy perhaps) or I would give you the best advice I could. I have raised an action to the Court of Session.

You will find court Guidance here http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/ although I don't know if your specific issue is covered on the site.

You certainly can represent yourself, if you do the judge will probably take time to make sure that he is satisified that you have considered your position and made that choice carefully. He cannot force you to seek representation. I would be very surprised however if he does not advice you that you should and may even give you time to make appropriate arrangements if you appear unrepresented on Friday.

We did do it but only because we had no other choice. It was bloody hard work. I am still waiting for the decision so we don't know if did a good or bad job.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Hi Magrew, thank you so much for your advice. I have noted that Govan Law Centre are now only taking cases from the local community. This is now on their website. I know they very much fight for people in these types of situations. They are great but sadly I cannot access them. The people of Govan are very lucky!

I don't know if this mortgage is regulated. It says its a non-conforming almost prime. What does that mean? Interest rate - fixed for 2 years was 7.94%....can you believe that I accepted that? My mortgage payments were actually £623 initially.

I asked them if I could buy myself out of the fixed rate when I became ill and they refused. Interest rates had come right down at that time. I have letters that I have sent trying to sort this situation out for a long time. They have been benefitting from the increased interest payments and at the same time adding charged to my account for being in arrears. If they capitalised my monthly payments would not have changed so this is not a case of them doing anything to help me. They just want to get as much as they can from me.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Can you call the Govan Law Centre and see if there is any other source of help they can recommend ? can they give any advice over the phone about your case if you explain it as you have online here ?

[Ruby]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Can you scan your credit agreement including the T & C's omitting your personal details? NEVER heard the term non-conforming almost prime. It is either regulated or not....... This is quite important. I suspect it is unregulated.

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

OK Ruby, I will do that later on today...going to bed now. I've just spent a lot of time researching this and will let you know what I've found later.Thank you.

[Magrew]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Any news?

[gemspan]

Re: Hi from Scotland....repossession with Sub-Prime Lender! Interesting case!

Hi Guys,

Well had my day in Court today....and it was continued until 19th October due to the fact that the other side lied by saying I had not tried to negotiate a payment programme. I was lucky enough to have the confirmation that indeed I had....constantly....and they had failed to enter into negotiations with me. The solicitors' last letter said to me that no arrangements will be entered into until Decree!

I was lucky enough to find some very interesting cases on which to base my Defence. The Sheriff did not want to see what I had prepared. I'd prepared a copy for him, the Pursuer's agents and myself. A waste of time...but great to be able to refer to cases.

I was fighting this on two fronts....the first that the Pursuer had not following the Pre Action Protocols. For this I used Platform Funding v. A Glasgow Woman (know her name but don't want to give it out as you might imagine!). The Sheriff ruled at Proof that the case be dismissed with expenses to the Defender...using C&G v. Norgan...as the persuasive case law in his judgement that the term of the mortgage is a reasonable place to start when negotiating the repayment of arrears.

Using this case I was able to put forward that Platform had consistently refused to enter into negotiations with me for a longer term payment solution to pay off my arrears. They refused to consider Norgan....despite them having this ruling against them in April. They refused to consider it after the expiry of the Calling Up Notice - which is the time that the Pursuer has to exhaust all options before starting Court Action. This didn't happen with me and they went straight for action when I put forward proposals to repay the arrears over a "reasonable" time which would take 15 years...some 11 years before the mortgage matures. In addition, they did not supply the necessary up to date information required. Case Law I used for this was a GLC test case where the judge dismissed actions and awarded expenses to the Defender because the Pursuers did not produce all the relevant information in relation to the Pre Action Protocols.

I also wanted to test the English T&Cs. The judge said that as far as he was aware the jurisdiction of the Defender is the Law that is used ie if I am resident in Scotland, it is Scottish Law. He did say, however, that contract law may be different AND that there was nothing definitive in relation to this area. Interesting! Don't know what to do about that...what do you think?

The one thing that happened today that I was truly disgusted with was the fact that the Pursuer's agents didn't attend but employed somebody to attend on their behalf and didn't give them the correct information. The lawyer was put in a very embarrassing situation when I told her that I could prove I had indeed contacted the Pursuer on several occasions. The judge wanted to know how my mortgage was being paid. It is currently paid by the DWP and, unbeknown to me, a payment of just under £1500 had been paid last week by them for back payments. They still went forward to get decree despite this. It means that the only arrears outstanding on my account are historic which have reduced substantially...together with double payments I have made when I wasn't getting DWP help. I think they are just leeches. The fact is that they are taking people's homes and they are lying in order to do that. Something has to be done. Thank goodness I can provide evidence.

The judge said that I should bring with me all the correspondence received from the solicitors from now until then when I attend. He said if I could prove that was wrong then he wanted to see their response.

Very sad in there. Lots of repo cases and most of them undefended. I was the only person being represented by myself. 70% of cases being heard today were sub-prime and people were losing their homes. I found that very distressing. I hope I don't become another statistic in a month.