New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

[Allday]

A manager at work seemed to think it is ok to racially harrass me, it is making me ill.
I raised a grievance, as I want the manager sacked for gross misconduct, and all they did was give the manager a written warning.
Can I appeal against this and get the manager sacked. If they do not, should I take them to an Industrial Tribunal ?

[enaid]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

If you were not provided with an Employees Handbook when you started there you should be able to get hold of the Grievance procedure rules from HR dept.
They maybe following their rules to the letter and a written warning maybe needed before further action.

[Allday]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Thanks for this. They say they will not take it any further than a written warning. I am hacked off !!

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

There is case law about workplace bullying in the form of Majrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005. Racial abuse is a criminal offence and your employers need to be made aware of this. Their response to the manager's behaviour may or may not be acceptable. Do you know if the written warning was a Stage One, Stage Two or Final Written Warning Prior to Dismissal? If it was a Final Written Warning, all the manager has to do is fart out of tune and its "JSA, here I come."

[wales01man]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

as a neutral here i think we need to know more about this acusation and the history of the managers behaviour,Harrasment racialy or any other comes in many forms sometimes hated filled remarks sometimes an innocent remarks said in the heat of the moment not meant to be said WE all have done it if the manager has a history of this he may already be on a final warning or this may be his first in which the first warning is the start of a process which can lead to dismissal rightly so but for any one to almost demand that a person is sacked for what maybe a first alleged offence is as wrong as the offence maybe if we know more a better opinion can be formed .
If its all as serious as we are led to beleive from what we read why have the police been called in I firmly beleive that ang allegation of a criminal offence should be investigated.
Having said al this i would side 100% with the OP if they are right.

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

A lot of employers often refuse to involve police, even when an employee requests them to do so, where a criminal act has been committed against that employee, often citing, "Oh they've got better things to do" or "There's no evidence". Not only is this seriously misguided, it is also illegal, as it is an offence at law to fail to report a crime to the police. In layman's terms, if someone reports to you that a crime has been committed against them by another person and asks you to ring the police, you are under an obligation to do so. Any employers currently reading this thread, please take note.

[teaboy2]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Hi Blue bottle

Their is employment law that relates to racial/sexual/disability hasrassment and bullying, it's the equality act 2010 part 5 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/5), its therefore not a police matter and must be dealt with in occurdance with employment laws.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...rk/DG_10026667

Saying employers should take note of what you say is one thing. But we still have legal obilgations to fulfill under employment law, which include disciplinary procedures, being impartial during investigations, and taking appropriate action based on the facts and merits of the case. We can not simply go running to the police based on an allegation alone, as that would open a claim up against the employer in the event the accused found to be innocent. Though if a person had been racially harassing an another employee, then i personally would have dismissed them for gross misconduct should the allegation proof to be true. But the employer in this case probably had other issues to consider, such as the effect such dismissal would have on their every day running of the company, on other employees (increased work loads/hrs) and other things that may be effected by such dismissal.

Although it is a criminal offence, when it happens as part of employment its deemed an employment matter and must be dealt with as such. Though the more serious cases such as things like sexual assualt or assualt whether racial or not, should and do include the involvement of the police due to their serious nature but bullying and harassment at work, whether racial or not, do not. So am sorry to say, the police will likely in this case, say its and employment or civil matter, unless it was serious enough to warrant police involvment off course.

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

The reason I posted that, TB, is a case I had when I was in the police force. A young female employee at a company that had an office in Central London was indecently assaulted by a male employee at the same company at the office. The female employer asked the employer to call the police. The employer refused, so the female employee called the police. Needless to say, the indecent assault was such that arrest was warranted. The employer kicked off, saying it was an internal matter, so he was taken in for a Breach of the Peace. The outcome was that the male employee went to the Crown Court, at own his request, and got sent down. The employer was reported for failing to report the matter to the police after being asked to do so, but not proceeded against on the Breach of the Peace matter. Having been an employer myself, in the past, albeit, those who I employed were one or two-day assignments for advertising materials, I was always mindful of that particular case.

Whilst Employment Law plays a part in workplace incidents between individual employees, in my considered judgement and experience, it cannot and should not be used to the exclusion of the aggrieved employee's right of prosecution or legal remedy, as the case may be.

The other thing that needs to be borne in mind is that the police are independent arbitrators and are legally-trained. The questions in the law exams police officers take are drawn from Bar exams. That should give an idea of the standard they have to meet. An employer cannot, realistically, be expected to be a walking legal encyclopaedia. It's just not possible. Whether the police get involved in a workplace incident is dependent on the circumstances. An employer has nothing to lose and, perhaps, much to gain by asking the police if a particular incident is something that should be reported and/or investigated by them. For an employer's own protection, I would always recommend them speaking to the police when an incident has occurred where criminal elements are involved or appear to be involved.

[teaboy2]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

I agree in part blue bottle, as i said serious offenses like sexual assualt or assualt are police matters, not employment matters. But the equlity act 2010 under part 5 makes its clear that harassment and bullying in employment is an employment matter. The legal system for justice for harassment or bullying in work is via employment tribunal service. But first the OP would have to appeal the employers decision to not terminate the accused persons employment they would also have to show that the employer had not done enough, within reason, to stop the harassment. For the op to simply say they are not happy with the accused only receiving a warning, is not enough to win at tribunal, expecially if the decision by the employer can be shown to the tribunal as being reasonable and they had done enough, within reason, to stop further harassment and/or protect the OP from further harassment.

Off course, there is nothing stopping the employee from taking the issue to the police him/herself, but its likely the police will say its an civil or employment matter not a criminal one, purely because of part 5 "work" under the equality act 2010 taking precedence since it is specific to harassment and bullying in work. Theres also nothing wrong with the employer asking the police if it is serious enough to warrant a police investigation, but end of the day all the employer legally needs to do is follow employment law by following guidelines that are issued to them by the likes of Acas for bullying and harassment cases that fall under the equality act 2010. Which by the way does not cover sexual assualt or assualt, as they are still, and rightly so, covered by criminal law, so must be reported to the police as soon as a complaint has been raised.

As for the OP's case, we don't know what actually happened, was it racial harassment, or just a one of comment, has it happened since? Until the OP can tell us the full story then there is no advice that we should be giving as any advice without knowing the full picture could do more damage to the OP's case then it would help it. So if the OP can give us the full story about what happened and details of the harassment, how long its being going on for, or if it was just one comment made by the accused, and what that comment was, then we can give the OP the correct advice. We do not want the OP calling the police only for the police to find out it was just a 1 of comment or a innocently misguided comment and have the OP risk wasting Police time as well for the OP to face a disciplinary for bringing the company in to disrepute, which though unlikely, is a possibility.

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

There is no way the OP can insist their abuser is sacked. That is just not possible. Unfortunately, mention the word "bullying" to some employers and they immediately bury their heads in the sand, go into denial and/or bring in some Rent-A-Bully "HR Consultant" to do it for them. After I was struck-down by FM, I was subjected to the most horrendous bullying by a manager at my last job that involving them sending me threatening emails and letters, making aggressive and threatening telephone calls, over an eight-month period, and then procured one of these Rent-A-Bully "HR Consultants" to help them. That person then started sending threatening emails and letters and making aggressive and threatening telephone calls and circulating seriously defamatory documents to third parties and engaged another person to do likewise.

At one stage, it became so bad, that I telephoned the local police station where I live and outlined what was happening to them. They requested a statement of complaint. If I had been sufficiently well enough to do the statement, the manager and Rent-A-Bully would have received an invitation they couldn't refuse and formally warned as to their conduct.

The nature of the bullying is such that, although an ET could have dealt with it, at the end of the day, because FM can put a person out of action for months on end, it was considered not a viable option. It is more likely that the matter will need to be dealt with by the courts, under Section 3, Protection from Harassment Act 1997, with Majrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005 being used as leverage to get them to settle before it gets to the stage where court intervention is necessary.

[teaboy2]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Unfortunately your correct their, a lot of employers or HR personnel, do bury their heads in the sand and it can result in bullying of employees who are geniue ill. Issue though that adds to this is their obligations to your well being, which they abuse by using it as an excuse to contact you when you off work ill, even when you have a sick note and have been signed off by the doctor, which can become harassment with constant phone calls, emails, some threatening when they do not get a reply or the reply is not what they wanted to hear.

But if its in the work place, then its only the ET's that can deal with it, unless the seriousness of the matter is so serious that the police must be involved. So its all down to the seriousness level, if its only a minor incident then its dealt with in the work place and via ET if need be, but if its a serious incident then the police could well be involved. In your case, it was a very serious case of harassment, breach of data protection act, by the employer themselves and the 3rd party HR consultant. If it had not been such higher management behind the harassment you suffered, then its not likely the police would get involved. Also as a former police man yourselve, that may have helped you with the police deciding to get involved. Others the police might have not helped and simply told them it was an civil or employment matter.

Also don't forget, employees are contracted to follow the grievance procedure to raise complaints too, so they could face breach of contract claims from the employer if they did not follow the grievance procedure before contacting the police in cases of work bullying or harassment, though unlikely the employer is within their rights to make such claim, though they would have to be very unsympathic, if they did.

[Shadowcat]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Hi Allday and welcome,

Do you think this warning will stop it? If they won't take it any further just remember that he is effectively gagged, every single day and he only needs to step out of line once more and it's curtains. I'd be more than happy to know I was controlling a bully, they hate nothing more than that.

However, if you do want to take it further of course Tribunal is open to you but you will need a record of dates, times and occurrences. They like all the diarised stuff - not easy to do when you're in an emotional state but if it happens again, write it all down.

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Bullies are driven, mainly, by fear; fear that their inadequacies or incompetence will be exposed. In essence, the key to defeating them is to expose them. That is what they hate most and will either leave or try their best to conceal their shortcomings.

[bluebottle]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

Unfortunately your correct their, a lot of employers or HR personnel, do bury their heads in the sand and it can result in bullying of employees who are geniue ill. Issue though that adds to this is their obligations to your well being, which they abuse by using it as an excuse to contact you when you off work ill, even when you have a sick note and have been signed off by the doctor, which can become harassment with constant phone calls, emails, some threatening when they do not get a reply or the reply is not what they wanted to hear.

But if its in the work place, then its only the ET's that can deal with it, unless the seriousness of the matter is so serious that the police must be involved. So its all down to the seriousness level, if its only a minor incident then its dealt with in the work place and via ET if need be, but if its a serious incident then the police could well be involved. In your case, it was a very serious case of harassment, breach of data protection act, by the employer themselves and the 3rd party HR consultant. If it had not been such higher management behind the harassment you suffered, then its not likely the police would get involved. Also as a former police man yourselve, that may have helped you with the police deciding to get involved. Others the police might have not helped and simply told them it was an civil or employment matter.

Also don't forget, employees are contracted to follow the grievance procedure to raise complaints too, so they could face breach of contract claims from the employer if they did not follow the grievance procedure before contacting the police in cases of work bullying or harassment, though unlikely the employer is within their rights to make such claim, though they would have to be very unsympathic, if they did.

I quite agree with you, TB. In my case, what prompted the police to ask for a statement of complaint was that the emails and telephone calls passed over a public electronic telecommunications system and letters were sent by Royal Mail. Basically, if any document is sent via a public mail carrier, e.g. Royal Mail, or an electronic communication (email, fax or telephone call) passes over a public electronic telecommunications system, they are deemed to have entered the public domain and, as such, it then becomes a matter for the police.

Agreed, if an incident is contained entirely within the workplace, then, yes, it is an employment matter, subject to the criminal law not having been breached to the extent that intervention by the courts would be necessary. It is not often that the police will get involved in workplace incidents, but I can recall an incident at a Central London branch of a certain fast food chain where one employee lamped another employee. It was a customer who, having witnessed the incident, called the police. When we arrived on scene and examined the aggrieved employee, there were sufficient grounds to arrest the assailant for ABH. When LAS arrived and examined the aggrieved employee, they were concerned about the injury he had sustained. On X-ray at hospital, it was found he had a cracked cheekbone. The fast food chain dragged their heels over the incident, but had no choice when H & S from Westminster City Council EHD got involved. As with everything in life, nothing is ever straightforward. Lol!

[IanM]

Re: New Boy Says Hello !! Can anyone help me get justice against my employer ??

In all honesty Allday, and i know others will not agree with me BUT, i think you should calm down and move on.

What job do you do?
How long have you been in the job?

You found yourself in a job where you say your manager racially harassed you, you made an official complaint to your employer, they investigated the complaint and gave the manager a written warning as to his future conduct.

I honestly believe the company has accepted your complaint and dealt with it according to how they see fit within the workings of their company and yours may have been the first complaint against the manager they have received during his employment so have dealt with it in the interests of all parties concerned.

Whilst the manager was in the wrong for racially harassing you he has been punished with a written warning and would probably value his job more than he would value racially harassing you so i believe you should put it behind you and get on with your job.

You could also ask another employee to help build bridges or you could just stay out of each others way and both be professional during working hours when you have to interact with each other, or you could continue to hold a grudge against him until you both find yourselves without a job.

As you stated in your opening post, "A manager at work seemed to think it is ok to racially harrass me....", if he seemed to think he could and now he doesn't then there should no longer be a problem.