Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

[whitelaw04]

I have two outstanding debts with two councils over council tax.

The first one is in my name only and is for £436 with Baliffs fees is now £529(the baliffs are jacobs). I have been a bit ill informed over the whole process and desperately tried to come to an arrangement with them as I assumed at this stage they where going to break into my house and just seize all my possessions. I made contact with the Baliff who has hand delivered the letters through my door and agreed to pay an initial £50 to come to an arrangement. I refused him entry into the property but he said that he needed me to sign a piece of paper to confirm the arrangement which I stupidly did. Then later on that day I got a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory through the door which had details of my company car on. The piece of paper I signed must of been this but was on a clipboard covered with other papers. The only thing visible was a signature box, it was covered by what looked like an income and expenditure sheet. It says I have 5 days to pay in full otherwise they will be sold. So i contacted the baliff on his mobile, he said it has now returned to the office and to deal with them from now on. I called the office the next day, I was trying to get them to accept a payment plan of £70 per month. They said that they could only accept a payment of £120 per month and that I would need to make a payment in addition to the £50 I made to the baliff in order for the goods not to be siezed within the next week. I tried to explain that the car wasnt mine but they where having none of it, and wouldnt believe the Baliff had done what he did. Im at a bit of a loose end here. After reading other posts I've already entered into an arrangement with them. Am I screwed? I'm not looking forward to a conversation with my boss letting him know that the companies car has been impounded. Im bricking it to be honest.

The next is a debt for £360 which is with rossendales. I was paying the council £50 a month on a £610 debt, but because it's gone into the next council tax year they reffered it to baliffs. I had rang the baliff and offered her £80 per month, which she said she accepted, but then I got a letter through saying it was back with the office and that if I had not got back to them within a week they would start removals. I've called the office and they have said they would put it on hold for a further 7 days whilst I send them my income and expenditure. But that it would likely have to be cleared within 4 months. The thing is with this one is my name is not the only one on the liability order, I had two other housemates on the tenancy at the previous address but it is my debt, I owe the money as I was responsible for the Council tax. I have tried to get their names taken off to no avail, but have been in contact with them and they have not mentioned anything re Baliffs letters/visits. So i'm hoping that my new address is the only one they have on file. As i know they've moved a couple of times. My question here is what to do? Will my income and expenditure suffice and are they likely to accept even though there is 3 people on the order. They are saying they need it over 4 months.

I want to pay. I'm able to pay. But the amounts I've offered are literally the maximum I can afford. Anything else will mean I'm not getting to work due to fuel costs, or not eating. I've got a court date next week for none payment of TV Licence. F knows what Im going to do about that. But the baliffs are my main concern at the moment.

Sorry for the long first post. Your help and advice will be extremely appreciated. As at the moment my head is liable to explode.

Regards.

[ploddertom]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

I have two outstanding debts with two councils over council tax.

The first one is in my name only and is for £436 with Baliffs fees is now £529(the baliffs are jacobs). I have been a bit ill informed over the whole process and desperately tried to come to an arrangement with them as I assumed at this stage they where going to break into my house and just seize all my possessions. I made contact with the Baliff who has hand delivered the letters through my door and agreed to pay an initial £50 to come to an arrangement. I refused him entry into the property but he said that he needed me to sign a piece of paper to confirm the arrangement which I stupidly did. Then later on that day I got a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory through the door which had details of my company car on. The piece of paper I signed must of been this but was on a clipboard covered with other papers. The only thing visible was a signature box, it was covered by what looked like an income and expenditure sheet. It says I have 5 days to pay in full otherwise they will be sold. So i contacted the baliff on his mobile, he said it has now returned to the office and to deal with them from now on. I called the office the next day, I was trying to get them to accept a payment plan of £70 per month. They said that they could only accept a payment of £120 per month and that I would need to make a payment in addition to the £50 I made to the baliff in order for the goods not to be siezed within the next week. I tried to explain that the car wasnt mine but they where having none of it, and wouldnt believe the Baliff had done what he did. Im at a bit of a loose end here. After reading other posts I've already entered into an arrangement with them. Am I screwed? I'm not looking forward to a conversation with my boss letting him know that the companies car has been impounded. Im bricking it to be honest.

They cannot seize goods that do not belong to you. Write -email is fine initially - and advise them yhey have seized good owned by a 3rd Party and a simple DVLA check by them selves will reveal ownership. You therefore need to ensure that the Levy fee & all associated charges are removed and replaced by a 1st Visit Fee if applicable.

There is nothing that says you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. Now you have been caught the first time ensures you will not let it happen again. Signing a Walking Possession only means the Bailiff may charge an extra fee.

In the meatime I would suggest paying the Council direct via online banking, Council website or automated phone. Whatever happens do not allow the Bailiff entry to your home.

[ploddertom]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

For paying the second account same advice applies. Have a good read of some of the threads within the Bailiff Forum.

[whitelaw04]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

Thanks. Is the notice of Seizure of goods and inventory invalid even though it has my signature? The only item listed is my car. And he has not been granted access but the small print reads:

1/ You make take possession of those goods and hold them in walking possession.

2/You or your man may re-enter the premises at any time whilst the distraint is in force.
(He has not been in the property, have I given permission for him to enter with this signature.)

3/I will not remove any goods so distrained

4/ I will inform any other distress that these are you goods bla bla bla

5/ You may remove and sell these goods at any time if I have not paid in full. I certify this has been handed to me and the goods listed are mine and are not subject to hire purchase or lease agreement <-(company car a lease agreement?)

I cant believe I didn't read anything before dealing with these guys. And that I let me trick him into signing that. I would never sign that, but how the hell can I prove that he obtained the signature by deception.

[bluebottle]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

If the bailiff hasn't gain peaceable entry to your home, the WPO could well be invalid. As for levying on a company car, let the company know what has happened and get them to contact the bailiff asap. If he still insists he's in the right, ask the company you work for if it is possible for them to hold your company car in a secure compound where the bailiff cannot gain access to it and is likely to come into contact with guard dogs and/or security officers if they do. He may scream and stamp his feet, but there's nothing he can do about it. The levy is invalid.

[whitelaw04]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

Thanks. The compound thing isnt really an option for me as I need the car to do my job. I dont really like the thought of having to go through this with my boss. Nor trying to explain how a document which clearly has my cars details on has got my signature even though as I've said it was by deception. I suppose the onus is on me to prove it though, which is going to be very difficult. Would they be able to seize the car without doing an owners check as previously mentioned. I have since spoke to the council and they have also advised me that this is the case, but I've read in other posts that the Baliffs like to seize then ask questions later. The advisor was actually quite understanding and spoke to the recovery department about getting the account back to the council, this was to no avail however and I'm still in the same situation.

I guess what I need to know most urgently is if me signing this gives the impression that the Baliff has had peaceful entry to my property as stated in point 2 of the small print on the Notice, and obviously whether they can take the car.

I will be taking the above advise and writing to let them know that this is not my vehicle, but from what I've read the onus is on me to provide evidence that it isn't, as it is implicated that I signed the notice.

[labman]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

You don't need to prove anything. As PT said, just e-mail them and tell them the car is not yours, to check with the DVLA, and confirm the removal of any levy fee imposed on you. All you should pay is £24.50 for a first visit.

They will not force entry to your house, so please don't worry about that.

Have you read the Council Tax sticky in the bailiff forum?

[whitelaw04]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

I have Labman, I'm just confused as to what actual power the document has as it has been signed off by me. If they had been granted access they would have levied on the items in the property, thats obvious to you and me, but does this document give them any legal avenue to take any action considering it has my signature and the contents of the smallprint?

I will do as suggested and draft an e-mail to the bailiffs tomorrow. I will also call the council and speak to collections department asking them to accept my payment plan, I'll record the call. I'll post back here the reply from the bailiffs and what the council has said. Thanks for your help so far.

Is this in the correct section? I tried to post in the Bailiffs section but I dont have the permissions.

[wales01man]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

Just read this thread and my question would be if the bailiffs try to take the car having been told its not the debtors but a company car this must be theft surely and if the car is taken the police must act and must charge the bailiff if this is not the case there is something seriously wrong with the legal system that is there to protect us and our property from criminals bailiffs or others

[labman]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

If the car is taken the police must act and must charge the bailiff if this is not the case there is something seriously wrong with the legal system that is there to protect us and our property from criminals bailiffs or others

Yes, sadly there is something seriously wrong with the legal system that is there to protect us and our property from criminals bailiffs or others.

Whitelaw, the bailiffs didn't enter your property, so didn't levy on anything in your property. They levied on 'your' car, but it's not yours. They should have checked, but they often don't.

This means the levy is invalid, so the piece of paper you signed is useless to them, it has no legal standing. Hope this puts your mind at ease.

[whitelaw04]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

Hi All,

I just wanted to give you an update and ask for your advise.

Sent an E-mail to Jacobs letting them know that the levy is invalid. Not heard anything back on this front yet.

I spoke to a woman at the council on the recovery team. She said that she's obviously not going to refuse any payments I try and make to the council, but she is not going to call off the bailiffs either. I told her the most I can afford to pay is £60 per month, but Jacobs want double that, she said its up to me to negotiate with them, but she can see there is an arrangement of £120 in place and that if I break this arrangement the bailiffs will send a van out and I'll get charged another £100 odd, I explained that the Levy is invalid and she said that this is something that I'm going to have to take up with the Bailiffs.

So what should I do, I can make payments to the council but they are going to keep sending people round. To try and catch me with a window open and levy on the stuff in my shed etc. They are flat out refusing to take it back off the Bailiffs but at the same time are saying that they wont refuse payments. They are saying about the van charge, obviously not likely because the levy is invalid, so I'll have to wait to hear back for that one. Got the call recorded. But from what I've read it seems like they are doing everything right.

Thanks,

[labman]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

I've made a few comments on your reply, so excuse the red!

Hi All,

I just wanted to give you an update and ask for your advise.

Sent an E-mail to Jacobs letting them know that the levy is invalid. Not heard anything back on this front yet. That is potentially good news - did you give a time limit in which to respond?

I spoke to a woman at the council on the recovery team. She said that she's obviously not going to refuse any payments I try and make to the council, but she is not going to call off the bailiffs either. No surprise at this stage. I told her the most I can afford to pay is £60 per month, but Jacobs want double that, she said its up to me to negotiate with them, but she can see there is an arrangement of £120 in place and that if I break this arrangement the bailiffs will send a van out and I'll get charged another £100 odd, I explained that the Levy is invalid and she said that this is something that I'm going to have to take up with the Bailiffs.They do not have a valid levy, so they cannot send a van out to remove possessions. Are you able to get a recording of the person saying this?

So what should I do, I can make payments to the council but they are going to keep sending people round. To try and catch me with a window open and levy on the stuff in my shed etc. They are flat out refusing to take it back off the Bailiffs but at the same time are saying that they wont refuse payments. They are saying about the van charge, obviously not likely because the levy is invalid, so I'll have to wait to hear back for that one. Got the call recorded. But from what I've read it seems like they are doing everything right.

Thanks,

What should you do? Keep the bailiffs out. Pay the council what you can afford as regularly as clockwork. Try to pay on a weekly basis rather than monthly if possible, even if it works out at the same amount. The reason is we want to build up a quick repayment history so they can see in a month or two you've made plenty of regular payments. They are then more likely to recall the debt.

As long as the bailiffs don't gain access to your property, they will have to eventually return the debt to the council, but they're likely to slip up again first.

It might be worth writing to the Head of Revenues asking if he condones unlawful levies and asking why the council's appointed agents have not followed procedure by checking? Personally I don't think I would bother at this stage as I think the bailiffs may well slip up again in their actions, but it would be interesting to hear the views of others as well.

[whitelaw04]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

Thanks Labman, I have a recording of the woman stating that they would send a van out after I had already explained that the levy was invalid, I then explain it again and thats when she says I need to sort this out with the Baliffs as "she wasnt there".

OK I'll make the payments directly to the council on a weekly basis, this is likely to be a reduced amount at the moment as I've already paid Jacobs £50 this month, which has all gone o their fees at the moment. Hopefully that should change once they remove the levy. I didnt give them a time limit to respond, but if I have not heard anything by friday I'll e-mail them back saying please respond within 5 days.

At the moment I am due to make a token payment of £20 to the bailiffs n 13th May, so obviously this will make up part of the payment I will now pay the council. Really not looking forward to dealing with them once that date has passed, I assume they'll really ramp up the visits then. The council advisor has told me to make that token payment and then re negotiate the agreement with jacobs.

I'll keep you posted on what happens with the levy situation.

Thanks again, it really helps having someone to bounce all this off.

[bluebottle]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

I would follow Labman's advice on this one. Your LA and the bailiffs are digging a grave for themselves - a bloody big grave - and, if I were you, I would let them keep digging. Sooner or later, they will dig so deep, they'll be begging you for a way out.

[labman]

Re: Jacobs and Rosendales Baliffs Action Over Council Tax

They won't really 'up the action' once the date has passed. They may make threats over the phone - don't answer and remember if they leave voicemails that they are idle threats. They have too many victims to attack to spend all their time trying to catch you out, so they may try to visit you, but as long as you keep the doors locked and windows shut downstairs, they won't force entry, though they may well say they're coming with a locksmith to do just that. Don't be intimidated!

What you can do is log all calls and use this thread as a diary of what happens when so you don't forget. If they do mess up, you've got a good record of it then, and one where dates could not have been fabricated by you. :beagle: