Sunrise

[Sunrise]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site and still trying to find my way around so please bear with me!!

I am writing on behalf of my mum who has recently started getting letters from different dca's about a debt that she knows nothing about.

I didn't know about this site before and so just sent originally a letter saying that they had got the wrong address and the debt didn't belong to my mother.

Since then the debt has gone from £4,999 to £24,999.77p I have just sent a an e-mail to their website disputing this debt saying my mother does not owe this and can they provide proof of this debt with the following:-

1. Copy of the orginal credit agreement

2. Statement of account of the debt

3. Original terms and conditions of the debt

They haven't even said what the debt is supposed to be for example, loan, credit card etc

This has been ignored and she received another letter saying the same thing but this time instead of wesct, from credit security limited.

I once again sent an e-mail to them stating she did not owe this money and once again to contact their client being wescot to respond to the e-mail I sent to them on 18th of February 2011.

I hasten to add didn't know then you need to send a £1 postal order / third party cheque to obtain this information.

This was Monday not heard anything back yet.

Could anyone help me with this?

Thank you so much

Kind regards

Sunrise

[bluebottle]

Re: Sunrise

Hi Sunrise and welcome to Legal Beagles.

It sounds like your mum may have been the victim of something called scatter-gunning, a tactic used by DCAs which goes against the OFT Debt Collection Guidlines, which I am attaching to this post. As for the DCAs, the onus is on them to prove that your mum owes money and to whom.

You will need to write a "prove it" letter to the DCAs involved, giving them, say, 14 days to respond. If they continue to be evasive, please come back on to this thread and we'll see how we can help you further.

BB

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

HI Bluebottle

Thank you so much I haven't let my mum know but I have been worried sick. She is elderly and disabled and I am her and my fathers full time carer.

I will do this. and let you know what the result is thank you so very very much

sunrise

[bluebottle]

Re: Sunrise

HI Bluebottle

Thank you so much I haven't let my mum know but I have been worried sick. She is elderly and disabled and I am her and my fathers full time carer.

I will do this. and let you know what the result is thank you so very very much

sunrise

Hi Sunrise,

In view of what you have said, both your mum and dad are classed as vulnerable and special rules apply. Get the "prove it" letters in the post to the DCAs involved asap and send by Recorded Delivery.

BB

[labman]

Re: Sunrise

Here you are:

Dear Sir/Madam

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

I/we look forward to your reply.

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

Hi Thank you blue bottle and labman for all your kind words and advice. Thank you labman for the letter.

Will get on with this straight away and update you both when I hear anything back.

I feel so much better already.

God bless you both and thank you so very very much

sunrise

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

Dear BB and Labman

I finally have some news on my previous posts and sending your letter out labman to the two dca's. This is what has happened since.

I sent both letters out recorded delivery on Tuesday the 20th Of March 2012. The reason I was a few days late sending them from talking to you both on 13th- 16th March was because I had to buy and install another word package after my harddrive was accidentally cleared and then had to re=install my printers to print them off and send them.

There are two dca's involved wescott and credit security ltd. Are they both the same company?

On tuseday the 20th of March 2012 when I got back shopping with my mum a phone message had been left for my mum saying could she phone this number which was 01296 - 642700. They didn't say who was calling and I had to google the number to find out who it was. Guess what it was credit security ltd. I don't know how they got our phone number as we are ex directory. Needless to say we just deleted the phone message.

We then got a letter from credit security ltd on the thursday which was the 22nd of March 2012 saying this:-

RE: Wescot Credit Services Ltd - LLoyds TSB PLC

Dear Mrs xxx

We have been instructed by our Client to recover the above outstanding debt.

Unless there is a valid reason for non payment settlement is required within seven days. Should you wish to discuss this account please contact one of our advisors on the above number.

All payments should be sent to the above address.

Yours sincerely

Collections Department.

I didn't post on here guys after this as I guessed they had not received the recorded delivery letter from us by then as these two events happened on the same day as the letter went out. i.e 20th March 2012.

The interesting thing was though that Lloyds Tsb has suddenly appeared alongside them which my mother has no accounts with this bank.

I have now received another letter from Westcot saying this:-

Dear Mrs XXXXX

Further to your recent communication. In order for us to prevent a breach of the Data Protection Act and also continue with your enquiry, it would be most helpful if you could confirm your date of birth and the last address that you have resided together with the date vacated.

Our offices are open from monday - friday 8.00am - 9.00pm, Saturday 8.00 to 4.00 and sunday 9.00 to 4pm.

We look forward to receiving this information within the next 10 days.

The letter was dated the 27th March 2012 and we received it yesterday 2nd April 2012.

Your advice guys would be most grateful.

Thank you so very very much

Sunrise

[Shadowcat]

Re: Sunrise

Hi Sunrise, regarding giving them details - no way.
You need do absolutely nothing other than what you've done.
Any debt will not be theirs, they have no right to anything.
You've done what you need. If you want to resend the original letter just for the fun of it do it but you've done enough.

I'm sure my more knowledgable friends on LB will be along to advise further.

[charitynjw]

Re: Sunrise

From the Information Commissioner's Office

Can I ask for more information before responding to a subject access request?

The Act allows you to confirm two things before you are obliged to respond to a request.
First, you can ask for enough information to judge whether the person making the request is the individual to whom the personal data relates. This is to avoid personal data about one individual being sent to another, accidentally or as a result of deception.
The key point is that you must be reasonable about what you ask for. You should not request lots more information if the identity of the person making the request is obvious to you. This is particularly the case, for example, when you have an ongoing relationship with the individual.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisati...onal_data.aspx

How can they possibly send out confidential financial data in the form of a demand for payment, & then hide behind the DPA when you ask for proof?

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

Thank you shadow cat and charitynjw

No I am not going to send them this information. We know that my mum does not owe this money and I think this proves that they are just chancing their luck. If she did owe this surely there would be signed documentation and her personal details on the banks records? which is why we have asked for this proof before.

I am so grateful to you both.

Thank you very very much

sunrise

[CleverClogs]

Re: Sunrise

Just refer them both to Arkell v Pressdram (link)

[shell]

Re: Sunrise

I am amazed at the fact that they think it's acceptable to hound someone for a debt yet when proof of debt is asked for they turn around and say, well first we have to prove it really is you that owes the money.

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

Hi cleverclogs and shell

Thank you so much for your advice. Firstly, cleverclogs should i write to both dca's with this link? i.e saying look at arkell v Pressdram?

Also thank you shell for your comments. I totaly agree with you I know my mother does not owe this money and it annoys me that when I try and get proof from them they always go off on another tangent.

[bluebottle]

Re: Sunrise

Demanding money from someone who doesn't owe money is a criminal offence under Section 2(1), Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by False Representation). Demanding money from someone who doesn't owe money and at the time of doing so using menaces is a serious criminal offence under Section 21, Theft Act 1968 (Blackmail). It is for the DCAs to prove they have a right in law to make the demands and threats and that the threats are a proper means of enforcing the demands, that is, if they can first prove your mum owes the money and they have a right in law to send threatening letters or emails. Also, it is a criminal offence under Section 1, Malicious Communications Act 1988 to send a letter containing a threat to someone and a criminal offence under Section 127, Communications Act 2003 to send an email containing any threats.

Remind the DCA of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, a copy of which I am attaching to this post. Rattle their cage by threatening them with the OFT Consumer Credit Licensing Department, who licenses them under the CCA.

[Sunrise]

Re: Sunrise

Hi BB

Thank you so much for all your help and advice. It has greatly been appreciated. I will get that letter out straight away. It's strange but since I have sent the letter to the two dca's only westcot the orginal dca sent the letter back asking for my mums date of birth and previous address. The other dca which was credit security has sent to date no further letters for the time being. We have always been on the voters register etc where we live as we have nothing to hide and it just annoys me that when i ask them for proof they just back track all the time.

We are currently renting this property where the previous tenants owed everybody thats why we had to go ex directory i was literally answering the phone all day and night to callers asking for the previous people who strangely enough had a bank account with lloyds bank.

I really appreciate all your help bb thank you so much will update you when i get a reply.

Kind regards

sunrise