Hello to all

[jane1108]

Hi everyone

I joined to read more detail on Firstplus and I'm amazed at the wealth of information and support on this forum

I'm trying to finally get to grips with our finances, been a carer for 23 years until our daughter passed away recently. So now jobless and feeling very lost. Hope I can also give support to others I'm fairly knowledgeable on care packages/chc and in particular direct payments (personalised budgets) also disability discrimination issues, benefits etc.

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to all

Hi Jane, and welcome to you. I am so sorry to hear that you have lost your dear daughter after caring for her all this time. To outlive our own offspring doesn't seem natural, does it ? I am sure that your daughter would be pleased to see you helping others with the experience that you will both have undoubtedly shared. Thank you for coming here, and offering your help.

I have been involved with FirstPlus to some extent here - along with my mate Turboman. I will also request the help of another good lady, who has had personal experience of FP. You are NOT alone, ma'am. Your strength of spirit shines.

[jane1108]

Re: Hello to all

Hi Bill

Thank you for your really lovely words. She was the light of our lives.

Caring for someone can have a significant effect on people's ability to cope with other aspects of their life. Today we had good news her case for housing benefit for a live in carer and a second bedroomhas been granted legal aid based on her estate which is in a negative. So court of appeal here we come! Its a bit complicated because although now the law has been changed! Primarially because of her case another ruling on appeal let to a bad judgement for people generally with disabilities so we need to get it overturned for the future of disability discrimination from the State.

Regarding Firstplus I am resigned to looking for the best way of getting rid of the debt! Its so wrong that after taking out a loan of 50000 after paying back 30000 over 6 years the settlement figure os about 44000! They so encouraged us to yake the loan over a long period ie 22 years!! Despite this would have made my husband the main income earner 74 if it haruns the whole term!

[jane1108]

Re: Hello to all

Excuse typos abo
ve I'm on my mobile

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to all

We're getting used to deciphering the apparently dyslexic messages from Androids and i-Phones, these days, Jane !!! I've just started using an i-Phone, and I HATE replying to posts & messages with it !!!

I really admire your guts for taking matters to appeal regarding what I guess is a 'retrospective' HB claim. I'll keep out of that one - it's deffo not my area - although I have had my skirmishes with our local council H+CTB team !!!

Sure - I guess when we are caring for someone - particularly at an 'intensive' level - then I guess we tend to shift our focus from our own needs to theirs. We become a bit 'selfless,' I guess. You will be adjusting your focus, now - but take your time. You are entitled to be a bit 'selfish,' now, methinks - and should not feel any guilt for that.

Just my unlearnéd opinion, but I really do feel that the 'Care in the Community' movement that seems to have been foisted upon us in recent years should be put to the test whenever it seems appropriate. We are responsible for the care of our own children, of course - but, where they suffer a disability, then I feel that the burden shifts. That was always the ideal behind the NHS., wasn't it ? The "Community" shares the burden of caring for those who need such care. We each contribute to that via NICO and HMRC, don't we ? Yet, we now seem to find that someone, somewhere, is taking our money - and doing nowt in return. And they seem to feel NO guilt for that.

Regarding FP - I reckon that is probably more down to facts and figures - and that's where I feel more able to help. Can you give us some more detail as to what we can help with there ? Believe me - there is a pile of characters here who have battled with FP. And won. You will have their backing.

I know this - because they even tolerate jerks like me !!!! :hippie:

[jane1108]

Re: Hello to all

Hi Bill

Thanks again for your nice post I am now on a normal keyboard so no excuse for typos!

Yes you are correct it is retrospective HB although there is no actual money involved because the Council made discretionary payments to cover the difference. They were actually pretty good about it all, they have to follow the rules of the DWP whether they agree with them or not! Including appealing because to have the law overturned on a first stage appeal is very unusal!

My daughter had a very good care package at the time when it was negotiated the Integrated LD team were very proactive and she was able to live independently in her own flat despite the severity of her disabilities. Sadly this team has now been disbanded and all the workers lumped into a totally generic system....a step back in time of at least 10 years! Absolutely re "Care in the Community" and that is now getting much harder for most people due to the current climate and total lack of money avaialble for those who need care. The elderly in particular get the worst deal, despite being the ones that have paid the most into the system. A very sad state of affairs.

Re Firstplus any help would be much appreciated, not sure there is much I can do to get a better settlement figure???

Loan was taken out in April 2006 for £50000 at the time despite interest rates being relatively high compared to now we started on a APR rate of 7.668 charged on the outstanding balance of the loan actually there are two APR figures on the loan the other one being 7.9%. The loan was taken out over 264 months! It was based entirely on my husband's income and the repayments were 392.54. Over the next couple of years the rates went up I can't remember the exact figures but then we did have two decreases and the rate currenlty is 8.70% with monthly repayment of £417.36. I asked Firstplus for two settlement figures.

This is what they have given me:

Total amount payable under the agreement £81466.05
Less our rebate on early settlement £36645.67
Admin Charge £150
Total Amount Repayable £44970.38

If we pay a lump sum of 10000 off the balance it states the following
Balance £44,314.61
Settlement Interest £116.60
Less Partial settlement £10000
Admin Charge £50
Balance remaining after partial
settlement £34,491.21

Predicted to run for 124 months if at 417.36 (IF NO CHANGE IN INTEREST RATES)

I am in a position to pay off some of the debt but not all and I am hoping that once I have cleared all our other debts, our mortgage lender may take some of it on. They have said at a variable rate of 4.99% but after the loan is issued then we can possibly renegotiate at the same rate as our lifetime tracker which is a very good one of .99% above base rate.

So in a nutshell we have paid over £30,000 so far but still owe 45,000 or thereabouts!! Its really scary and if we continue with it then we will still end up paying through the nose and risk a hike in interest rates at anytime from Firstplus.

Any advice would be much appreciated

[shell]

Re: Hello to all

Hiya Jane and welcome.

Firstly, you need to DSAR First Plus, this is a must as they like to tell huge porkies. Although they like to be selective in what they give you, you will get most of your paperwork.

Then, did you take out PPI with the loan? Even if you got the payback after 5 years something can be done.

[jane1108]

Re: Hello to all

Hi Shell

Thankfully no I didn't take out PPI although they did try and force it on us at the time! We said NO.

I will make the request, in what way can this help or is it just to check the data is correct? I.e. all payments etc.?

[shell]

Re: Hello to all

Hi Shell

Thankfully no I didn't take out PPI although they did try and force it on us at the time! We said NO.

I will make the request, in what way can this help or is it just to check the data is correct? I.e. all payments etc.?

You need to check the data is correct, that they haven't added anything they shouldn't have. It also annoys them and annoying them is fun. You see they won't send everything and that way they can be reported.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hello to all

You need to check the data is correct, that they haven't added anything they shouldn't have. It also annoys them and annoying them is fun.

:rofl:

It will also cost them rather more than the statutory maximum fee (£10) to dig out their information about one and then present it in the legible and meaningful way required by law.

You see they won't send everything and that way they can be reported.

Plus, if they do not (or cannot) produce a copy of your executed consumer credit agreement, it may be somewhat tricky for them to insist that the debt is actually capable of being enforced through the courts.

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to all

I hope your HP appeal is upheld, Jane. Presumably, this is a matter of 'classification' of the HB awarded - in that you are hoping that it will be deemed retrospectively to have been a 'mandatory' award, and not 'discretionary' ? Max respect for taking the time and trouble to lay a smoother path for others who may follow you.

With regard to FP, I agree with Shell. Considering the amounts involved here - AND considering it's FP - who do not exactly have a good name - then that £10 spent on the DSAR may well throw up enough to make it a worthwhile exercise.

It sure seems like a prime example of irresponsible lending, if the loan was based entirely on your husband's income - yet the loan term extended as far as (or beyond) his 74th birthday. I'm not sure how legally 'useable' that fact is, but I doubt if it will get them any Brownie points with the FOS or the courts.

Thanks for the facts & figures. I'll try and get back to you later about that stuff. Turboman is a whizz with loan amortization and settlement, so I'll try and catch up with him and see if there's owt we can do with their figures.

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to all

:rofl:

It will also cost them rather more than the statutory maximum fee (£10) to dig out their information about one and then present it in the legible and meaningful way required by law.
:faint:....Tee-Hee....!!!

Plus, if they do not (or cannot) produce a copy of your executed consumer credit agreement, it may be somewhat tricky for them to insist that the debt is actually capable of being enforced through the courts.
Indeed so, CC. A further quid invested in a CCA request might also be worth considering here.

....

[mommymans]

Re: Hello to all

My sympathies on your daughters passing. It is very generous of your to offer your help to others. Than you.

[jane1108]

Re: Hello to all

Thanks all for your lovely comments

Will make information request, although I wouldn't expect to see a Consumer Credit Act agreement as the loan is not covered by it as it was over £25000 and taken out in 2006. Would really appreciate the help on the figures and the settlement. I do think the strongest argument we have is the "irresponsible" lending but whether that is retrospective to 2006? It does seem a very murky area that at the moment?

The HB claim is complex, it is now "mandatory" because they changed the law/regulation in question in June 2010 on the recommendation of a Select Committee report (it was hailed as a big thing that this government had done for disabled people) that part was rubbish because the recommendation to change the law was a very strong one, my daughter's case was the only case that had succeed at first stage tribunal and was cited in the Select Committee report and it would have been changed regardless of which govenment was in power as the DWP had come to the conclusion they had to change it.

In a nutshell as don't want to say too much at this stage as we go to Court in March but another case lost at 2nd stage appeal and it was a very damming judgment that has all sorts of implications across the board not just for HB for disabled people, basically giving the state the right to discriminate as it likes ignoring Human Rights and Equality Acts, so it has to be challenged.

I think this is a lovely forum you are all very helpful and knowledgable

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to all

D'oh...!!! Sure - a CCA request would be a waste of a quid, Jane, as this would be an 'unregulated' agreement, of course. My apologies.

I've been looking at the figures in your earlier post, and I need some clarification. A 50K loan at 7.668% over 264 months certainly seems to 'amortize' properly with an initial monthly repayment of £392.54. However, 264 payments of £392.54 comes to £103,630.56 - a lot more than the £81,466.05 Total Amount Payable under the agreement. Can we check this anomaly out, first ?

I've attached a spreadsheet showing the initial loan amounts as posted, and a forecast of the payments due. If you could then amend the dates and amounts to show the ACTUAL payments made, that would be a good step. If you prefer privacy for this, then PM me.