Brother spent mothers nursing home money

[madmaria43]

Hi
I hope someone can give me a bit of advice for a friend of mine as she is in a real state at the moment. Her mother has been in a nursing home for a few years now. She has a brother and he is supposed to be the main contact and is also responsible for paying her mothers nursing home fees. My friend cashes her mothers pension weekly and hands it over to her brother so he can make up the difference with her money. But she noticed over the past few yearsher brother hardly visits their mother.

Then last week she got the shock of her life when the council rang her to ask her what she was going to do about the outstanding debt for her mothers nursing home fees that had not been paid for a long time, they said they had tried to get in touch with her brother but failed so they rang her instead,and they told her that the debt now stands at £12,000.

She couldnt believe it she has been handing over the pension money to her brother every week, and he has just not been paying it he has been just spending it on himself and his family. When she confronted him he just said at first it was just a loan and was going to pay it back but after a couple of times it just was easy so he kept on spending it, he couldnt care less it is disgusting.

The council were made aware of the situation but after weeks of trying to come to some arrangement with the brother to pay of the debt. they have now given up and are threatening my friend with debt collectors etc. The problem is she has no proof that she handed the money over to her brother so it is his word agains hers. NOw she is panicking that the baliffs are going to come in or worse take her home. Does anyone know what she can do any help would be appreciated thank you Maria

[Sapphire]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Hi Maria

Well this is certainly a difficult one and so so sad, the brother deserves to be shot, but will leave that for another rant.
Ok hun in all seriousness, I really think you're friend needs to get a visit to a solicitor asap, if you look online for solicitors in your area, some do a free first visit. Alternatively she can contact the CAB and ask for urgent help, she will need to outline the problem and hopefully they will fit her in.
You say that she has been negotiating an agreement to pay back off the outstanding debt, has she done all this in writing ? I certainly think that she needs to do that and keep everything.
I'm bumping this up for you and with any luck one of our more learned friends on here will have some more ideas for you.

[Mrs James]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Hi Maria

So sorry to hear of the problems you are having at the moment.

Further to sapphire's advice, you may also consider phoning SAGA on 0800 056 7996. They were extremely helpful advising a friend of mine when she had a problem concerning payment to a care home.

[Sapphire]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Yes good idea Mrs J, and also give Age UK a call they may have someone who can help too.

[Celestine]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Isn't this theft and fraud?? Or am I missing something......

[Sapphire]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

I think that it will boil down to a 'verbal' agreement between brother and sister and then it will become a case of he said/she said, probably be that no one can prove either way.
What I'd like to know is how the hell has the home let a bill for £12 k run up, my friends mum was in a home and they were on the case a couple of days after the monthly bill was due.

[labman]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

If she has one of these nearby, it would be an excellent place to start:

Law Centres

[madmaria43]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

thanku so much all of you i am going to visit her now to get some more info and will get back to yu thank you again maria x

[Monzter]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Hi Maria,
I am no expert but I this could be financial abuse of the sister and mother by the son/brother. I know it was a verbal agreement but there may be some ways that she can maybe back up her version of events.

Speak to the Care Home manager/owner or whoever deals with the fees. Firstly find out how long the fees have not been paid for (as you say the council are chasing for the money I assume it's a council run home?) If you can then speak to them further about how the fees used to be paid. For example on a certain date, by the brother. There should be a paper trail even if the payments were cash. If she can show that the brother has been responsible for X amount of time for making the payments for the mothers care, it may go some way towards her proving that she was handing the pension money over for the fees and it didn't reach it's destination.

Hope it gets sorted X

EDIT - Who is officially responsible for paying the fees, does anyone have power of attorney? Many of our clients NOK have power of attorney and are responsible for anything financial. If it's the brother then wouldn't he be held accountable in law for the debt? Like I said no expert here but it is a subject particularly close to my heart.

[Bill-K]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Following Monzter's advice, MM, I think it is important to understand that - even if there is/was no written agreement, that does NOT mean that no agreement exists. So, as M says, there ARE ways of establishing a 'balance of probability' that the agreement was made, by finding the 'audit trail' or 'paper trail.'

Having established that such an agreement must have existed originally, I think it would then be down to the son/brother to prove that the agreement was subsequently modified or cancelled. I doubt if he would be able to produce any evidence of that.

So I agree with M - get as much evidential detail as you can regarding the original payment arrangements - and then confront the son/brother with that. Let him know that this would show that an agreement was made, and that he would have to prove IN COURT that he had not broken this agreement. Sometimes, the threat of Court action with the use of a bit of legal terminology is enough to scare jerks like this into admitting culpability.

JMHO, though, of course.

[Guest]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

Isn't this theft and fraud?? Or am I missing something......

Hi
No I dont think you are.

Lets not forget that this money belongs to the elderly lady in the home.
It may be that she is unable to handle her own affairs but it does not alter the fact that this money is hers and has been fraudulently misapropriated.

The question has to be asked as to why her money wasnt paid directly into her account together with her other money, and then the account debited by the home for her upkeep. This account could then have been monitered by a trustee or family member.

Unles there are other factors that have not been mentioned.
I think your friend should be having a talk with the local bobby before someone else does.

Peter

[Monzter]

Re: Brother spent mothers nursing home money

I also agree a certain amount with Peter, I am actually a little surprised that someone from the home hasn't alerted a social worker as this would be considered financial abuse. I have given several statements as a care assistant regarding clients being financially abused by relatives. It's simple things like the person responsible for the clients financial affairs refusing to buy or release funds for chiropody, new clothes, hairdressers etc. By far the best solution all round and the one I would recommend to anyone coming into a home is to make a solicitor the power of attorney. In my experience, they are easier to deal with and release funds very quickly and easily and see that receipts etc are kept. For instance one of my clients became ill and lost a lot of weight and needed new clothes. I spoke to the solicitor who told me to go through a suitable catalogue with the client and email him the things she wanted. I did it and 24 hours later the clothes arrived, I posted him the delivery note and he spoke to his client directly to ensure she was happy. Took him 20 minutes max and the lady got to spend her money on what she wanted, the solicitor also eliminated any need to hand cash to a 3rd party.