Hi

[clay]

Hi

Found this site earlier this week and registered.

Been reading some very interesting threads and amazed at how much information there is here.

I have a pressing case regarding Marston agents calling for a payment my nephew has incurred. Their agent called an hour ago and posted a Final Warning notice and said they will come back one evening in the next week and remove goods.

Hope I can get some advice here. I am desperate for any help to ward off these people.

Thank you.

clay

[teaboy2]

Re: Hi

Report them to the OFT their threat to remove goods is nothing but hot air, they have no legal power to do anything, only a court bailiff with an warrant from the court to seize goods can do that, not a doorstep collecter working for a DCA.

Next time they come hand them the following letter through the letter box:- (Edit and delete the relevant parts for your location)

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account Ref xxxx

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date. The same for all previous visits to my property without my permission or prior appointment in breach of OFT Guidlines, i also note your Doorstep Collectors to return and seize goods - Only a court has the power to authorise the seizure of goods, and without such a court order you are in breach of Protection from Harassment act 1997 and have made a threat with menace which is a criminal offence.

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.



In Scotland change the last paragraph to :-

There is only an implied license under Scots Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc. Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you attempt to send such a collector to my home, you will also be reported for harassment and I shall seek damages for a delict of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a delict of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless. Should it be necessary, I will obtain an interdict from the Court to prevent you carrying out your threat.

Yours faithfully,
Print Name only DO NOT sign by hand

Also send a copy to marston recorded delivery, with a photocopy of the notice threatening to seize goods. All so it maybe worth while reporting their threa to the police so they can give you a case number so if they do come round again and refuse to leave, you can call them and quote the case number and they will be there in minutes.

[clay]

Re: Hi

Ah, thanks so much teaboy2, I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders after reading your reply.

I will follow your generous advice and hope that I can handle the situation with more confidence.

I was at my wits end, even so far as to contact the Samaritans as I was so scared of another knock on the door. The guy that came was a big burly chap and he almost broke the knocker, he was that determined to get an an answer. I did not open the door. Mr father who is 82 years old and in poor health was cowering in the living room. I myself suffer from a chronic illness and I am somewhat anxious at the prospect of another visit by Marston's agents.

Hopefully, with the information you have provided I will be in a better position to handle the situation.

Thank you sincerely for your help.

clay

[teaboy2]

Re: Hi

Your welcome Clay.

Just out of curiosity - What kind of debt is this i.e. Credit card, loan, bank account etc.

Has there defiently not been any Court Orders issued against your son for non payment of fines etc?

Just need to be clear as Marston do also operate as Court Bailiffs as well. Though normally the paperwork they give will refer to a court order/warrant if they were acting on behalf of the court. If theres no mention of a court warrant/order, and just a name for original creditor then there probably just trying their luck at recovering a loan and wrongly threatening you with siezure of goods without a warrant or court order. Besides if this is your nephews debt, then they can only seize your nephews property with a court order, not yours.

So if its for a loan, credit card type debt, then do what i suggested above.

If they do have a court warrant/order then the above post will not apply though they can not seize goods belonging to anyone other than your nephew.

[Celestine]

Re: Hi

Hi Clay

Have a good read of our bailiff forum for further reassurance xx

Particularly this:

Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[clay]

Re: Hi

Your welcome Clay.

Just out of curiosity - What kind of debt is this i.e. Credit card, loan, bank account etc.

Has there defiently not been any Court Orders issued against your son for non payment of fines etc?

Just need to be clear as Marston do also operate as Court Bailiffs as well. Though normally the paperwork they give will refer to a court order/warrant if they were acting on behalf of the court. If theres no mention of a court warrant/order, and just a name for original creditor then there probably just trying their luck at recovering a loan and wrongly threatening you with siezure of goods without a warrant or court order. Besides if this is your nephews debt, then they can only seize your nephews property with a court order, not yours.

So if its for a loan, credit card type debt, then do what i suggested above.

If they do have a court warrant/order then the above post will not apply though they can not seize goods belonging to anyone other than your nephew.

Hi Teaboy2

Having read your post and then read up on the link which Celestine kindly posted, I'm afraid that the Removal/Final Notice does state that the client is the local Magistrates Court,

My nephew disappointingly allowed his dog to fowl and was a given an on the spot fine. He was fined by the court and initially paid in instalments but failed to keep up with regular payments. He is unemployed and has largely been so since leaving school.

Unfortunately his Mum died seven years ago and he came to live with myself and his grandfather. Nothing of any value in the house belongs to him. I've read somewhere, whether it's true or not, that bailiffs can seize other family members' items if they can't find anything of value belonging to the debtor.

The advice on Celestine's link says:

...bailiffs do have the power to break into your home to take your goods even if they have not been into your home before. You must, therefore, treat a Magistrates Court fine as a priority debt because you could be sent to prison if you default on payments and, although very rare, this does happen.

For this reason it is no longer safe to try to avoid bailiffs coming into your home by refusing to let them in for the collection of the fines mentioned above.

Read more at: Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

So it looks like I mst allow them to enter our home and comply with the law.

Thanks for the replies teaboy2 and Celestine, I appreciate you taking the time out to help me.

Regards
clay

[teaboy2]

Re: Hi

Hi Clay.

Yes unfortunately as it is the magistrate court, and they are acting to enforce a Court Warrant/Order Etc, then yes you will have to let them in.

Though as i said, they can not take any property that does not belong to your nepthew. They can only take what your nepthew owns, nothing else, so point out to them what is your nepthews and what is not.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi

Could you not evict your nephew, at least until after this has been resolved?

[teaboy2]

Re: Hi

Could you not evict your nephew, at least until after this has been resolved?

Yeah - buy him a tent and put it in the garden, inform the baliff that your nephew lives in the tent out back and all his property is in the tent with him, I.e. Sleeping Bag, clothes on his back, and his teddy bear.

[clay]

Re: Hi

Hi Clay.

Yes unfortunately as it is the magistrate court, and they are acting to enforce a Court Warrant/Order Etc, then yes you will have to let them in.

Though as i said, they can not take any property that does not belong to your nepthew. They can only take what your nepthew owns, nothing else, so point out to them what is your nepthews and what is not.

Thanks for the reply teaboy2. Though I have to say that the prospect of allowing the bailiff into my home fills me with dread. I do not wish to confront them in my home if there is any possible way of avoiding it.

I am not trying to second guess your advice but just clicking on a couple of other sites on Google results brings up conflicting advice. For example, this site, in the section - How do I deal with a bailiff at my door? seems to be saying that you do not have to let a bailiff into your home at all. I'm so desperate for them not to come into my home that I read something like that and think that if they don't gain access will the break my door down.

Sorry to be bothersome, but I just can't sleep or relax whilst this is hanging over our heads.

clay
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Could you not evict your nephew, at least until after this has been resolved?

Hi CleverCloggs.:tinysmile_grin_t:

I'm afraid that is not an option.

clay

[teaboy2]

Re: Hi

The other sites your looking at will not be talking about baillifs acting to enforce a warrant from the courts, but baillifs (doorstep collectors) simply acting on a loan/card debt on behalf of a Debt Collection Company. You will be seeing the advice along the lines of:

"only the post man and person(s) asking for directions have permision to visit my property without prior appointment, and that i have no desire to make such appointmet with yourselves therefore i revoke license under common law for you to come on to my property"

Its vital to be clear that the above does not apply to baillifs acting to enforce the authority of the court, they can and will come onto your property and do not need you permission to do so. Though they CAN NOT take anyones property that does not belong to your nepthew.

They are legally entitled to enter your property by use of a locksmith or through unlocked windows, they can not kick your door in or anything that will cause damage to your property like smashing windows or doors.

Simply state that your nephew does not own anything and all property was bought by yourself. That way they can not take anything unless they can prove it belongs to your nephew.

Thanks for the reply teaboy2. Though I have to say that the prospect of allowing the bailiff into my home fills me with dread. I do not wish to confront them in my home if there is any possible way of avoiding it.

I am not trying to second guess your advice but just clicking on a couple of other sites on Google results brings up conflicting advice. For example, this site, in the section - How do I deal with a bailiff at my door? seems to be saying that you do not have to let a bailiff into your home at all. I'm so desperate for them not to come into my home that I read something like that and think that if they don't gain access will the break my door down.

Sorry to be bothersome, but I just can't sleep or relax whilst this is hanging over our heads.

clay
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------




Hi CleverCloggs.:tinysmile_grin_t:

I'm afraid that is not an option.

clay

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi

Sorry to be bothersome, but I just can't sleep or relax whilst this is hanging over our heads.

As I see it, you have two options that should reduce the risk of your door being lawfully kicked in:

1. pay your nephew's fine and any other costs accrued
2. remove your nephew from your house

A properly sworn statutory declaration stating that none of the goods and chattels in your house belongs to your nephew may also be needed. The fine may then go back to the court where it can be dealt with more sensibly, either by an attachment to earnings (or benefits) order or, if the magistrate(s) should still be afflicted with cephalo-proctal intromission - link - by committal to gaol for non-payment of the fine.

Could you not evict your nephew, at least until after this has been resolved?

I'm afraid that is not an option.

Why not? Are there no park benches nearby on which he and his teddy bear could sleep?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi

Yeah - buy him a tent and put it in the garden, inform the baliff that your nephew lives in the tent out back and all his property is in the tent with him, I.e. Sleeping Bag, clothes on his back, and his teddy bear.

Perhaps it would be OK for him to sleep in the garden shed or a summer house, or perhaps his uncle could get his gardener to erect a yurt - link - somewhere in the grounds.?

[clay]

Re: Hi

The other sites your looking at will not be talking about baillifs acting to enforce a warrant from the courts, but baillifs (doorstep collectors) simply acting on a loan/card debt on behalf of a Debt Collection Company. You will be seeing the advice along the lines of:

"only the post man and person(s) asking for directions have permision to visit my property without prior appointment, and that i have no desire to make such appointmet with yourselves therefore i revoke license under common law for you to come on to my property"

Its vital to be clear that the above does not apply to baillifs acting to enforce the authority of the court, they can and will come onto your property and do not need you permission to do so. Though they CAN NOT take anyones property that does not belong to your nepthew.

They are legally entitled to enter your property by use of a locksmith or through unlocked windows, they can not kick your door in or anything that will cause damage to your property like smashing windows or doors.

Simply state that your nephew does not own anything and all property was bought by yourself. That way they can not take anything unless they can prove it belongs to your nephew.

Thanks teaboy2 for your thorough explanation and patience in replying to me. It increasingly looks likely that I will have to bite the bullet and allow them to enter my home and proceed with the levy.

If I did contemplate what CleverCloggs suggests and offer to pay the debt on my nephew's behalf, what would you suggest the minimum I should negotiate from if I asked the bailiff if he would accept instalments. The debt is £525.

I think I will also see, if I have time, if drawing up a Statutory Declaration as CleverCloggs suggest will have any influence on the bailiff's actions.

Thanks again for your helpful replies over the last few days. I truly appreciate it.

Cheers
Clay

[clay]

Re: Hi

As I see it, you have two options that should reduce the risk of your door being lawfully kicked in:

1. pay your nephew's fine and any other costs accrued
2. remove your nephew from your house

A properly sworn statutory declaration stating that none of the goods and chattels in your house belongs to your nephew may also be needed. The fine may then go back to the court where it can be dealt with more sensibly, either by an attachment to earnings (or benefits) order or, if the magistrate(s) should still be afflicted with cephalo-proctal intromission - link - by committal to gaol for non-payment of the fine.


Why not? Are there no park benches nearby on which he and his teddy bear could sleep?

Thanks for the chuckle on the link CleverCloggs, it cheered me up.:tinysmile_grin_t:

I wish I could evict my nephew to Mars for the trouble he has caused us.

Apparently he had taken no cleaning tools with him when he took his dog out for a walk. A park ranger asked him to pick the doggy-poo up but he refused and was then given an on the spot fine, which I accept is perfectly reasonable and just. If that had been myself in that situation and I had forgotten to take any cleaning tools with me I would have gladly picked up the offending dog-poo with my bare hands rather than go through this harassment by bailiffs.

As an aside, when you think about bailiffs coming to your door to aggressively demand entry it goes against all the advice the police and crime prevention organisations say you must do to protect your home from intruders. A person can come into your home and search through all your belongings as if he were a thief looking for valuable booty and then they can go onto to sell your property to third parties for what they can get. It is no more than legitimised burglary.

It's definitely Kafkaesque.