Hello

[unfortunatelybroke]

Hi All
Both my wife and I had debts totalling 80k and this is with 18 creditors 9 each. We have paid our creditors via a DMP which started Nov 2002 and for seven years we have paid at least 30% to each creditor. During this time both myself and my wife thought that our creditors were now supplying the DMC with monthly statements, infact no statements were sent to any of us over this seven year period and this only came to light In Jan 2009 when we were asked to write to all our creditors for an update on each account. Not one creditor replied, we were also asked at this time to request the agreement and some sent the application form stating that this was a form of agreement whilst others said that they do not have to send anything. We have no knowledge of what if any charges were made over this seven year period nor do we know if we asked for PPI, Some of the debts have been sold to DC's without our knowledge because we cant recall receiving any recorded delivery telling us this and we have asked these companies for proof of ownership but as yet no one has replied, some of the payments made to these DC's are between 1k to 5k which is a lot of money if they are not entitled to it. So is there any suggestions on what I should do next.

Unfortunately during a payment review in Feb 2010 it was clear that our finances fell short of the minimum payment required by the DMC and we had to stop paying, the DMC suggested that we would be better off applying for a personal bankruptcy but we dont want to do this, we have written to all our creditors to explain that we have no money left. Our creditors want us to send an income and expenditure and I am willing to send this once they have sent me the agreement and copies of at least 7years worth of statements so that if we have paid extortionate charges we can then at least claim something back which is only fair.

We are now both reliant on incapacity benefits, I claim income support, Industrial Injuries and housing benefit, we have no assets, our car is 10year old but still needed.

We have not made any payments to any of the Creditor/Debt collectors for a year, we have received lots of nasty letters telling us that we will be taken to court but as yet they have not, we have had callers at our door but we have refused to answer them in fact we did write to them saying that we would only communicate by post but it seems some of the creditors can read and some cant.

If we are taken to court what can happen ? we have no assets we are not working we have no property, can the court take our benefits off us. Any help will be appreciated
Thanks

[enaid]

Re: Hello

Hello and welcome,
As you can imagine we are going to need a lot more information form you if we are to help you.
Here is a link for a Income & Expenditure form I suggest you fill that in first off Legal Beagles Consumer Forum
We need know what the debts are ie loans, credit cards etc.

Did you get any paper work from the DMP company?

[unfortunatelybroke]

Re: Hello

Hi Nelly
Thank you for your reply,
I clicked on the link that you sent but it said that I do not have permission to access the page, my income is made up of Incapacity, Industrial Injuries (low rate), Income Support and housing benefit, my wife gets a small NHS Pension she also claims incapacity benefit The DMP company was the CCCS and we paid them every month without fail for 7 years but during a payment review in Feb 2010 I was told that both our benefits combined did not allow us to pay the minimum payment required and pay for all the essentials on their I and E form. we were down to £5 per creditor, (I made a mistake on my earlier message it is only 14 creditors and the amount at the start was 65k) we have paid 15,760 during this time and during our payment review in Feb 2010 the CCCS told us to apply for a personal bankruptcy.
There are 7 original Credit Card Companies, 6 Debt Collectors/buyers, 1 Bank Loan. and they are
2 x Barclaycard CC, 2 x Capital one CC, 2 x Tesco CC, 1 RBS Natwest Card CC
1 x HFC Bank Loan (which was an Original Credit Card owned by marbles) HFC converted it to a bank loan but never sent any documents to be signed.
3 x Cabot Financial, 2 x Direct Legal and Collections and 1st Credit.
It was the CCCS that asked us to write to all these creditors in January 2009 and request that we asked them for updates they also suggested that we ask for our agreements, as I said earlier no one replied even though we paid the £1 fee, and 1st Credit contacted the CCCS direct and added £600 without notifying us during this time. All the above only started to send documents after Feb 2010 when the payments stopped. Cabot and DLC said they didnt have to supply anything but they did say that they would request said documents from the OC but so far all they have sent is one application form and that is it and they have continued to add interest to one account only. DLC said that they also didnt have to supply said documents but they would supply these documents in court. RBS are the only company that have said that they do not have any agreement. whereas all the others have sent long winded leters saying that I would have been sent the agreement at the begining of the account, Lombard are the only Company that have not resorted to viscious Debt collection practices whereas all the others have passed it to several various nasty companies that have told us in no uncertain terms that if we dont agree a payment plan with them then they will see us in court, two companies have sent a doorstep collector via Moorcroft but I didnt answer the door I then sent them a letter saying I will only communicate by post. I am assuming that all these companies would have been sent the I and E by the CCCS at some time showing that we were claiming benefits due to ill health and this is possibly the reason why no one has taken us to court because I am sure it could be very costly for them. I have not sent any of the above any documents to prove that we are on a low income although I did say that they are welcome to any documents to prove this as long as they respond with the documents that I have requested which I think is reasonable, anyway Nelly can you advise me of the following
1... What documents do I need to ask 1st Credit, DLC, and Cabot to supply to prove ownership of the debt because these companies were not the original creditors and I cant get an answer from the originals because they have either gone bust or are just not responding to my requests.
2... If we were taken to court would our benefits be taken off us.
3... Can a Default notice be issued for the same account twice ? the reason I am asking this is that when we started our DMP in 2003 all companies issued default notices as soon as each account went into arrears. My wife has received a letter from Cap one advising her that they isued another default in 2008 when they had already been accepting the reduced payment to the account via the CCCS for 5 years. My wife has never received this default notice in the post.
Thanks

[enaid]

Re: Hello

Firstly they can not get blood from a stone and IF any were to take you to court the Judge would only award any of them a payment plan you could afford.

Here is a link to Curlybens guide about debt purchasing tells you all you need to know about finding out who owns the debt Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

The credit cards if you are up for a bit of a battle but one you should win you could reclaim all your charges back thus bringing the balance down all the info for that is here
Budgie's strategy for reclaiming credit card charges - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

There are also templates to help you write to your creditors offering a payment plan you CAN afford never offer them anything over and above that.
Think there is enough there for you to digest at the moment please feel free to ask any questions if you are not sure, i am also sure someone far more helpful than I will be along soon.
Enaid x

[Sapphire]

Re: Hello

Hiya as Enaid said have a good read of Curlys guide, then if you need further help post back on here.

[unfortunatelybroke]

Re: Hello

Hi Nelly, Sapphire and Curlyben.

Thakyou for your comments and thankyou for showing me curlybens notes on DC's it made very interesting reading, how can I ever thank Curlyben ?

First let me say that I will be writing to the CCCS for documents that they must have relating to the sale of the debts from the original creditor to the debt collector as how else would they know who to pay ? I certainly dont have this information. As for the Original Creditors left they have been very naughty in not sending me or my wife a monthly statement that would show the payment made by the CCCS for 7 + years.

I wrote to the F.O.S and asked them this question on 3 accounts, their reply was quite simple although they did not answer the question asked, they merely responded by saying that my signature on their form matched the signature that the 3 creditors had on file ?

HFC bank did send a statement recently which does not correspond to the CCCS statement by X number of months, so I wonder where this money went they have also increased the amount owed by £400 + but as yet have not said why.

1 x Barclaycard started to add interest after the CCCS payment stopped but the other Barclaycard has not ?.
1 x Cabot also started to add interest every month but not on the other 2 accounts ?.

I would also like to say at this point that we are not wont pay couple we are a cant pay couple our financial circumstances changed for the worse a few years ago, we have tried to continue to pay what we can and yes we have suffered but the increase in petrol and food and then VAT forced us to look at what we could and could not pay out, we did an I & E online with Martins Moneysaving Expert Website which gave us a shock as we are poor.

I have written to all our creditors/DC's I have sent them proof of income ie Benefits which they must also know about via the CCCS at least for the last 3 years or so but all they do is pass the accounts on to the likes of Moorcroft, Clarity, Mercers, Fredricksons, Triton, Capquest, Wescot, Midas, Green & Co, Credit Security Ltd, HL Legal, Sampson & Co, Apex, Calder Financial, Debt Managers Ltd, Financial Investigations & Recovery, the list is endless, I have a cupboard full of letters from these companies all screaming and shouting and saying if we dont pay they will take us to court and we may be liable for all their costs which are all different by hundreds of pounds, they also say that they will put a charge on our house or even aproach our employer, yet the OFT say that the Creditor should only use 1 debt collector at any one time they also state that the Creditor should vet each debt collector and inform him/her about the debtor's health and finances.

I think our creditors have failed us big time, they know our circumstances and have known for a long time, they know that we are both ill and that we are on long term incapacity benefit yet they use the big handed aproach with us, we have even had home visits from debt collectors without an appointment which is very scary so yes we are both ready to take on these faceless bullies.

[enaid]

Re: Hello

You should redeive monthly statements from the credit card companies and if any of the debts have been sold on, that information should have gone to you too. Any loans you have they should send you an annual statement on the anniversary of the loan.
On any of the debts you have they do not have to stop interest unless ordered by a court ie through a CCJ.
I think it maybe a good idea to write to CCCS see if they can provide any paper work for you to see, but as i said it should all come to you anyway.
None of the above DCAs maybe entitled to collect on the debts that is yet to be proven and we have letters on here that can help you achieve that.
The credit cards you will need to have your statements to work out all the charges you have on them, this is usually done by sending an SAR (Subject Access Request) this costs £10 but it does provide or should provide all the data the creditor holds on you personally.

[unfortunatelybroke]

Re: Hello

Hi Nelly Thank you for the reply, we never received any statements for over 7 yrs we were under the impression that our creditors were sending these statments to the CCCS, as they were now paying our debts.
I suffered a breakdown and was on medication so I wasn't bothered at the time nor was I bothered when the names of the creditors changed on the monthly CCCS statements, I just assumed that the CCCS knew what they were doing.
I asked another question on the DCA post and it is this, can I sue the Debt Collector in the small claims court to get the money that was paid out, if they cannot suppy proof of ownership by way of legal documents.

[enaid]

Re: Hello

I would doubt very much CCCS would pay anyone without proper proof they were entitled to that money, I would get in touch with them and see what they have to say.

[unfortunatelybroke]

Re: Hello

Hi Nellie
Letter on way to CCCS will return when I have a reply
Thanks

[unfortunatelybroke]

Re: Hello

Hi Nellie


One quick question ?

Can the OC put a default on on my credit file even though they are accepting a low payment via the CCCS on a DMP. I have just got a copy of my credit file from one of the 3 companies, and one of my OC's has placed the default on my file they have listed the default under the heading (gone away) this looks like they are trying to show that I had no intentions of paying and that I was trying to defraud them because I had changed my address but the truth is that I wrote to all my creditors including the CCCS and advised them that I was moving, I have never missed a payment to the CCCS and feel that this OC has used unfair tactics and tainted my file for spite, this OC has not been able to supply an agreement nor have they been able to supply any statements when asked for and paid for, whats my position now. incidently this default was placed exactly 6 years to the month that I started the DMP. I do beleive a default was issued prior to the start of the DMP, I have never received this 2nd default notice.