GM Card - Court Papers recieved

[MattyA]

Hi not sure where to post this so stuck it here for now.

Anyway I have received Court papers in relation to my GM credit card account which I am not sure what to do with / how I go about defending.
It is a long winded story and one of many in my case unfortunatley however this is the first claim I have received.
I have gone down the unenforceability route and have not made any payments since June 2010.
I CCA'd them in July - no response
Sent them a reminder in August - no response
I recieved a letter from their solicitors in September and informed them that the account was in dispute as their client had not provided the CCA as requested - no response
Other than a silly letter about a 'draft' letter from me that was unsigned and therefore not acknowledged by them - I wrote back to them telling them that the letter was from me and that it was digitally signed - again , no response.
Letter received from their solicitors dated 14/12/2010 saying that they had been instructed 'to commence legal proceedings forthwith'
I responded with the account is in dispute letter again as they / their clients had not fullfilled their obligations etc .
Court papers recieved 23/12/2010 (Merry Christmas!)

I want to contest this & dont want to screw this up ,so could do with some guidance from anyone else who has been in this position please.

As well as the unenforceability issue,I have also got claims on with them for unfair / default charges(ongoing) and mis-sold ppi(on hold due to BBA action).
As the card is long standing ,with a large balance, the unfair / default charges alone will either;go a long way to paying off the balance or pay it off in full with a surplus to be returned to me - dependant on the interest rate claimed / allowed in compensation.

Sorry that this is a bit of a rambler, but I would like to get the way that I approach this correct - as I have a number of similar claims ongoing with other lenders.

All / any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Matty

[Angry Cat]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

You must NOT submit your defence until you have been provided with all the documents that relate to their claim!
Please request an extension:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...5.htm#IDAUXNTB

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...5.htm#IDAUXRVB

[pompeyfaith]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

And if there is a PPI issue it can be set aside

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

You must NOT submit your defence until you have been provided with all the documents that relate to their claim!
Please request an extension:
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...5.htm#IDAUXNTB

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...5.htm#IDAUXRVB

Thanks - I will read up on how to do this.
I have until the 4/1/2011 I think ( will check with the court today)

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

And if there is a PPI issue it can be set aside

Thanks Pompey - I am new to the legal stuff so have done a bit of reading on this but am still unsure...

The ppi mis-selling claim has been ongoing since September and is now on hold by them awaiting the outcome of the judicial review.

So would this be a reason for the court to set the claim aside (I assume put the claim on hold) until the result of judicial review?

Could the fact that I also have a claim ongoing with them for unfair charges,which they have acknowledged and we are trying to agree figures to settle?

Thanks

Matty

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

Happy New Year Everyone!
(Lets hope for some success between us)

I have today submitted my AOS in response to GM's claim,which buys a little time to sort my defence out.
I have also written to their solictors with a CPR31.14 request and requesting that they agree to an extension of time of 14 days from the date I receive the information requested, to enable me to prepare and submit my defence.
If they dont agree / respond I will then do it through the court.

We will see what this brings and I will keep you posted.

I could do with pointing in the right direction re the set aside due to other ongoing claims with them....are there any recomended threads along these lines for me to read?
I have done a fair bit of reading over Christams but am still not that sure how to approach it .

All help much appreciated.

Matty.

[pt2537]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

CPR part 18 vs CPR 31.14 Confused? well read here

Legal Action: how to start off. IMPORTANT IF YOURE BEING SUED

I must get around to writing something over here, but there is two threads that will assist you.

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

CPR part 18 vs CPR 31.14 Confused? well read here

Legal Action: how to start off. IMPORTANT IF YOURE BEING SUED

I must get around to writing something over here, but there is two threads that will assist you.

Thanks for the response and the links pt.
Great read / fab thread.....will need to read again though.....several times no doubt.
Spooky thing is I was reading some of your posts on the other site yesterday (for the first time).

Matty

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

CPR part 18 vs CPR 31.14 Confused? well read here

Legal Action: how to start off. IMPORTANT IF YOURE BEING SUED

I must get around to writing something over here, but there is two threads that will assist you.

CPR part 18 vs CPR 31.14 Confused? well read here

Legal Action: how to start off. IMPORTANT IF YOURE BEING SUED

I must get around to writing something over here, but there is two threads that will assist you.

I sent of a CPR31.14 requesting copies of the agreement to which they refer in the POC.
They sent me a copy(which has clearly been 'doctored' - the signature box has been cut & pasted onto the bottom right hand corner of the original applicqtion form.

They have also photo copied onto the back of it, terms & conditions, I assume in an effort to produce a single page document,but again it is quite clear that this is what they have done as it much clearer / legible than than the photo copy of the original application form on the other side.

As they only refer to the agreement and the sum overdue ,I also asked them for a detailed breakdown of this sum ,which they say that they do not need to provide as it is readily available from the statements that have been sent to me.
I have not received any statements for a number of months ,so have no idea of how they arrive at this figure and how they have arrived at it.

They also did not respond to my request for an extension of time in accordance with cpr15.5.

I have until the 19/01/2011 to submit my defence and am not sure what next?

After reading other threads on similar situations is it time to submit an embarrassed defence due to their non compliance - or have they complied in the eyes of the law?

All help / advice much appreciated.

Matty

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

I sent of a CPR31.14 requesting copies of the agreement to which they refer in the POC.
They sent me a copy(which has clearly been 'doctored' - the signature box has been cut & pasted onto the bottom right hand corner of the original applicqtion form.

They have also photo copied onto the back of it, terms & conditions, I assume in an effort to produce a single page document,but again it is quite clear that this is what they have done as it much clearer / legible than than the photo copy of the original application form on the other side.

As they only refer to the agreement and the sum overdue ,I also asked them for a detailed breakdown of this sum ,which they say that they do not need to provide as it is readily available from the statements that have been sent to me.
I have not received any statements for a number of months ,so have no idea of how they arrive at this figure and how they have arrived at it.

They also did not respond to my request for an extension of time in accordance with cpr15.5.

I have until the 19/01/2011 to submit my defence and am not sure what next?

After reading other threads on similar situations is it time to submit an embarrassed defence due to their non compliance - or have they complied in the eyes of the law?

All help / advice much appreciated.

Matty

Further to my post above,I have done more reading and it seems as though embarrassed defense isnt the way to go......but I have read that much stuff on here / other sites that my head is mushed and I am starting to panic - This is the first time for me and I want to get this right but am alas getting overwhelmed.

I could do with a couple of pointers if poss please as my defence is due in next week and therefore need to get on with this now.

1st question:

In the CPR31.14 I asked for an extension of time to allow me to prepare my defence after receipt of any information.
On receipt of the inforamation,,the cover letter didnt mention any extension being agreed.

So,Can I simply apply for an extension now via the court and if so,if this is rejected and I have not submitted my defence will I get a CCJ?

2nd question:
The cpr 31.14 resulted in me being sent a copy of the original application form,which as stated above was quite clearly 'doctored'
This came very quickly,which was a suprise as I have been asking for a copy of the same for over 5 months.

As it came within a week of sending the CPR request thus giving me a week to consider and respond / file a defence would this be deemed as sufficient reason for the court not to allow an extension of time?

Question 3

I also asked for a breakdown of the sum mentioned in the claim which they havnt provided and have simply told me to refer to the statements recieved on a monthly basis since I began using the card.
I have not had a statement for a number of months so cannot check how they have arrived at this figure.
Are they allowed to do this?

Question 4:
They dont mention any thing else,in the POC, other than the overdue amount,contract dated on or about XX/95 and interest charged between sept & dec 2010 along with interest at XXX.XX pence per day(I hope it is just pence!!).

Is this vague enough to allow me an extension of time to seek additional information,to enable me to prepare my defence,such as an SAR to obtain copies of the statements to which they refer me?


Question 5:

As they dont mention anything else in the POC's do I now send a CPR18,to ask for copies of everything that they have,including copies of statements,DN & TN's etc...or file my defence and a CPR18 ,mentioning that I have requested further information ?

Or

Use this for a reason to apply to the court for an extension of time?

Question 6:

Whatever the case I believe that they owe me more than they say that I owe them.
I have claims in with them for Mis- sold PP,I currently on hold due to the BBA action AND default / unfair charges either of which would clear the amount claimed.

Is this something I can use in my defence,to set asside or stay the claim whilst we try to resolve all issues or would these have to be seperate / counter claims.


My overall aim is to reach an agreement on all 3 matters and put this to bed - however they only seem interested in their own claim (surprisingly!) - everything else is being treated with disdain.

Sorry its long winded ,but I am starting to **** myself and want to get a handle on what I can / need to do.

All help, comments , pointers etc greatly appreciated.

Matty.

Edit : Other info which may or may not be relevant:

1 Date of agreement on POC differs from date of agreement
2 Interest rate on POC differs from that on T&C's
3 There is no cancellation option on the signature page
4 The covering letter sent with the 'agreement' stated that it's an executed agreement plus original terms - I E seperate docs.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

Whatever the case I believe that they owe me more than they say that I owe them.
I have claims in with them for Mis- sold PP,I currently on hold due to the BBA action AND default / unfair charges either of which would clear the amount claimed.

I would say that is a good enough reason for a set aside, but how you would go about this is beyond me so over to PT.

[MattyA]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

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I would say that is a good enough reason for a set aside, but how you would go about this is beyond me so over to PT.

Thanks Pompey.

Any views / pointers pt?

Regards,

Matty

[pt2537]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

Further to my post above,I have done more reading and it seems as though embarrassed defense isnt the way to go......but I have read that much stuff on here / other sites that my head is mushed and I am starting to panic - This is the first time for me and I want to get this right but am alas getting overwhelmed.

I could do with a couple of pointers if poss please as my defence is due in next week and therefore need to get on with this now.

1st question:

In the CPR31.14 I asked for an extension of time to allow me to prepare my defence after receipt of any information.
On receipt of the inforamation,,the cover letter didnt mention any extension being agreed.

So,Can I simply apply for an extension now via the court and if so,if this is rejected and I have not submitted my defence will I get a CCJ? The simple question here is, do you have enough information to defend the case? can you properly plead a defence. Only you will know this for sure, but id suggest if the claim actually tells you the basics of the case against you, and you have the agreement they supplied and are reliant on . Also it will be within your own knowledge as to whether you received a default notice or not, if you did then you can plead to the defects if you didnt then you can say so, so id say you need to look at what you have, to answer this point.

2nd question:
The cpr 31.14 resulted in me being sent a copy of the original application form,which as stated above was quite clearly 'doctored'
This came very quickly,which was a suprise as I have been asking for a copy of the same for over 5 months.

As it came within a week of sending the CPR request thus giving me a week to consider and respond / file a defence would this be deemed as sufficient reason for the court not to allow an extension of time? Probably unless you are missing documents that you need to defend and this is not just a fishing exercise, but genuinely needed to put forward a defence.

Question 3

I also asked for a breakdown of the sum mentioned in the claim which they havnt provided and have simply told me to refer to the statements recieved on a monthly basis since I began using the card.
I have not had a statement for a number of months so cannot check how they have arrived at this figure.
Are they allowed to do this? Have you had notice of sums in arrears? see s86(a-c) CCA 1974. you could make a part 18 request and plead that you disagree with the quantum pleaded but cannot at this stage without disclosure plead what the correct quantum is

Question 4:
They dont mention any thing else,in the POC, other than the overdue amount,contract dated on or about XX/95 and interest charged between sept & dec 2010 along with interest at XXX.XX pence per day(I hope it is just pence!!).

Is this vague enough to allow me an extension of time to seek additional information,to enable me to prepare my defence,such as an SAR to obtain copies of the statements to which they refer me?Is this a Consumer credit agreement? if so, then you should look at s74 County Courts Act and also Consumer Credit Interest on Judgment Debts Order 1991, which sets out what can be sought in respect of interest and what cannot


Question 5:

As they dont mention anything else in the POC's do I now send a CPR18,to ask for copies of everything that they have,including copies of statements,DN & TN's etc...or file my defence and a CPR18 ,mentioning that I have requested further information ? Part 18 is for information primarily, but can also be used for documents too, however, it is important that you ask the right questions. Part 18 can be ignored if not conducted appropriately

Or

Use this for a reason to apply to the court for an extension of time?

Question 6:

Whatever the case I believe that they owe me more than they say that I owe them.
I have claims in with them for Mis- sold PP,I currently on hold due to the BBA action AND default / unfair charges either of which would clear the amount claimed.

Is this something I can use in my defence,to set asside or stay the claim whilst we try to resolve all issues or would these have to be seperate / counter claims.


My overall aim is to reach an agreement on all 3 matters and put this to bed - however they only seem interested in their own claim (surprisingly!) - everything else is being treated with disdain.

Sorry its long winded ,but I am starting to **** myself and want to get a handle on what I can / need to do.

All help, comments , pointers etc greatly appreciated.

Matty.

Edit : Other info which may or may not be relevant:

1 Date of agreement on POC differs from date of agreement
2 Interest rate on POC differs from that on T&C's
3 There is no cancellation option on the signature page
4 The covering letter sent with the 'agreement' stated that it's an executed agreement plus original terms - I E seperate docs.

You need to counter-claim for the charges and the PPI

comments in blue,

you should file your defence and CC together

[jumper999]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

If the amount on the DN contains default charges would that make the DN incorrect? If so can this be added as a point in the defence?

[pt2537]

Re: GM Card - Court Papers recieved

If the amount on the DN contains default charges would that make the DN incorrect? If so can this be added as a point in the defence?

no sadly

See Rankine vs Amex

Default charges are not something that can invalidate the default notice