Sham redundancy

[northview123]

I posted this by accident on the Welcome Forum! My apologies for the duplicate post- will try now and get the original thread deleted!

I would be grateful for your advice on the following situation. ACAS have been great at providing general advice but not answers to specific questions. My friend hasn't been a member of a TU long enough to be eligible for their help.

My friend works in a reputable college providing learning support for students with additional learning needs. She was advised a couple of weeks ago that her role was at risk of redundancy and that a second meeting would be arranged to make a decision on her redundancy. We assumed this would be the final consultation meeting where formal notice of her redundancy would be given. They claim the role was expanding and they now need someone with certain training that my friend doesn't have. When my friend asked about being trained for the new role, they suggested that she'd have to fund it herself, and that she now needs to go away and consider steps she can take to avoid redundancy (that she was obligated to do this). In the meantime, they publish the new vacancy with a very short closing date (a month from the first meeting). A few days later she requested to be sent their written redundancy policy but was told that they didn't have one since it wasn't a legal requirement. The advert was removed later that day. She attended the second meeting and presenting numerous steps she had taken to avoid redundancy including numerous options for the college to consider. They claimed that they would go away and consider one of these options - this particular option would require the college to fund my friend's training which they made clear wasn't an option in the first meeting. We asked at this meeting why the advert was published pre-emptively and were told this was a glitch and they apologised a few times. When we asked about being told a final decision on the redundancy would be made at this meeting, they were quick to claim this was a misunderstanding. They have now arranged for a third meeting.

My questions are as follows:
1. When we asked them if there was any other restructuring or redundancies being made elsewhere in the college, we were told they were not able to share this with us. Does my friend have a right to know if hers is the sole redundancy being made at the college?
2. While my friend presented numerous options she'd considered to avoid redundancy, the college presented none. When pushed they mentioned vaguely how they've checked vacancies at the college and their sister colleges but this was all very general, and was mentioned only on questioning. They did however ask my friend if she'd looked at vacancies outside the college, in particular in primary schools for a minimum wage position that has no relevance to her experience and skill set. This seems outside the remit of my friend's obligation to demonstration steps taken to avoid redundancy, and pushes her to prove how she's avoiding unemployment. Are they allowed to ask this?
3. Are they obliged to send the audio recording of the meeting and minutes after the meeting without her asking?
4. Can we use their lack of written policy in anyway? The process does not appear fair or transparent, but not just for my friend. They themselves seem to have backtracked on at least 2 issues so far.

Thank you so much for reading and I would be so grateful for any advice or guidance you can provide. Thank you so much!

[ULA]

Redundancy is when an employee is dismissed because they are no longer need yo do their job. This might be because the organisation is :
* changing what it does
* doing things in a different way, for example using new machinery
* changing location or closing down

For a redundancy to be genuine, the employer must demonstrate that your friend's job will no longer exist.

In terms of your questions:

1. The duty of the college is to inform those affected first. If there are further redundancies that are being considered in other areas of the college and the individuals affected have not been told, then this should not be disclosed to your friend in advance.

2. The college has the responsibility to alert your friend to all potential vacancies, even if they are at a lower wage rate. If they did not and your friend actually wanted to apply for them they could be seen to have not allowed all suitable alterntaive positions to be made available. The suitability of them can be a decision for your friend.

3. There is no legal requirement to send notes/recordings but if they have been taken and not provided by the employer, then yes your friend can ask to be sent copies.

4. There is no legal obligation for an organisation to have a redundancy policy, however in the absence of one then they are required to consult, consider all suggestions to avoid redundancies and ultimately if this is unavoidable pay statutory redundancy payments.
.

[northview123]

Redundancy is when an employee is dismissed because they are no longer need yo do their job. This might be because the organisation is :
* changing what it does
* doing things in a different way, for example using new machinery
* changing location or closing down

For a redundancy to be genuine, the employer must demonstrate that your friend's job will no longer exist.

In terms of your questions:

1. The duty of the college is to inform those affected first. If there are further redundancies that are being considered in other areas of the college and the individuals affected have not been told, then this should not be disclosed to your friend in advance.

2. The college has the responsibility to alert your friend to all potential vacancies, even if they are at a lower wage rate. If they did not and your friend actually wanted to apply for them they could be seen to have not allowed all suitable alterntaive positions to be made available. The suitability of them can be a decision for your friend.

3. There is no legal requirement to send notes/recordings but if they have been taken and not provided by the employer, then yes your friend can ask to be sent copies.

4. There is no legal obligation for an organisation to have a redundancy policy, however in the absence of one then they are required to consult, consider all suggestions to avoid redundancies and ultimately if this is unavoidable pay statutory redundancy payments.
.

Many thanks for your response.

Can I just clarify regarding point 3- she wasn't directed to any vacancies within the College. One of the attendees just quizzed my friend as to if she's looks for specific low paid positions in other institutions unrelated to the College. Her question serves no purpose is ensuring my friend has been taking measures to avoid redundancy, since if she took a job at another institutions she would still have been made redundant.

[northview123]

Can I also ask:

Would it be reasonable for my friend to suggest she will review the terms any redundancy package proposed with a solicitor before agreeing?

And would it be reasonable to point out that training my friend will cost them less than making her redundant/the redundancy pay out?

[ULA]

If your friend is being paid a statutory redundancy payment, accrued but untaken holiday, and any notice pay if she is not required to work her notice, then it is an easy calculation to check without paying for a solicitor in my opinion.

It is certainly making that point as it is a reasonable suggestion to avoid the organisation having to make your friend redundant.

[northview123]

Many thanks for your response.

What is the best way of asking for more than statutory?

She's prepared a list of concerns she has regarding how fair and transparent thr process has been (lack of written policy, lack of consistency, them backtracking on something they've said on at least 4 occasions, the fact that they published the advert pre-emptively then removed it when she asked for their redundancy policy) which hopefully she'll get a chance to present at the next meeting.

Once they present the terms of the redundancy package , how best is it to word a question that invites them to propose a settlment?

Also they allowed me to speak at the last meeting- not to answer questions but to ask difficult questions my friend was anxious of asking herself. Can they rescind this permission? Would it reflect poorly on them or would it be of little consequence?

Thanks so much! Your responses have been incredibly helpful.

[ULA]

See my point 4 at #2 for my view on the organisation not having a written policy on redundancy, so even if your friend did want to bring it up, it would not provide much of any sway for an enhanced redundancy payment.

In terms of trying to negotiate more than statutory, this is a college and unlikely they will have the funding to do more than the minimum, particularly if that would set a precedent they would rather avoid. However, your friend could raise the other points and see if they are concerned enough about a potential claim coming their way, to offer what is known as a Settlement Agreement.

A Settlement Agreement (SA) is a document which sets out the terms under which the company and employee agree to the termination of employment. The important part of this document will set out the contractual payments they will make and any compensatory payment. This latter payment is what they are paying for an individual giving up any rights to make a subsequent claim against their employer.

Part of the process of signing a SA is that the individual will be required to take independent legal advice from an employment law specialist. Part of their job is to ensure that the compensation being offered is at the correct level given the circumstances and the rights being given up to not bring any further claims.


Are you a work colleague or a TU representative, if you were not, then technically your friend was lucky they allowed you to attend? They could decide not to allow you to attend the next meeting if you are not there in either of the capacities I have set out. However, if they did this it could be argued they have set a precedent by allowing you to a previous meeting related to the same issue of a redundancy process.