Scotland - Cabot Debt Chasing Advice

[coolhandct]

HI, Im looking for advice and clarification. To confirm Im residing in Scotland.
I am fairly well drilled in much of the legalities but need some guidance.
I will try to be as detailed as I can. Apologies for lengthy message.

I had 3 loans around 2017 with different lenders, I got into financial difficulty and eventually had to stop making normal payments but rather made token payments.
I stopped making any payments approx Mar/Apr 20 (Im aware of the 5 year time barr in Scotland.)
All three loans were eventually bought over by Cabot and as expected they have been chasing me ever since for payment which I ignored until earlier this year.

I should also clarify that the only thing remaining on my credit file is the default for loan 1 which was sadly entered a lot later by the original lender in Nov 20.

I took out a mortgage with my wife in Aug 23 and in view of default this was with KMC.

It is a 12 year mortgage with a 5 year fixed.

My aim is at all costs avoid anything being added to my credit file before being in a position to get a favourable mortgage when the default drops which I believe will be Nov 25 or Nov 26 (Perhaps you could clarify)

Loan 1 - They eventually got to the stage where they threatened possible court action and it was then dealt with by Nolans Solicitors who I understand act for Cabot. I sent a letter denying any liability and asking for proof that the debt belonged to me. This was in May 24.

Following this all communication stopped until start of August 24 where they sent a copy of the loan agreement, Ts & Cs, statement. Everything was correct and full proof that this loan was mine. I have therefore entered into postal dialogue with them and offered to pay £1000 against a £6500 debt. They rejected this so I provided an I&E without providing employment details or mention of other loans and offered to pay £25 per month which they accepted.

They asked me for proposals for loans 2 & 3 however I denied any liability for these.

They then advised me they would try and source proof of debt.

This brings me to contacting you.

Loan 2 - They (Nolans) have now sent me what they advise is a copy of the loan agreement for loan 2 (£10.7k still owed) and statement and asked me for proposals within 14 days.

This loan was originally with ZOPA. What they have sent is headed "Your Zopa Loan Contract Summary"

I appreciate that this is a slightly different type of lender but it doesnt seem like an acceptable credit agreement for the purposes of proving this debt.

It lists me as borrower although states c/o Zopa Ltd as opposed to my address.

It does detail loan amount, total payable, term, APR, Rate - There is no signature section - digital or otherwise.

There are also lots of ts and cs.

I cant remember what was provided at the time.

My query is whether this is an acceptable credit agreement.

If so I would make them an offer as in Loan 1 however if not i would write to say that not accepting liability that it isnt acceptable proof of debt ownership.

Loan 3 - Not yet had any other response.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated

[echat11]

HI, Im looking for advice and clarification. To confirm Im residing in Scotland.
I am fairly well drilled in much of the legalities but need some guidance.
I will try to be as detailed as I can. Apologies for lengthy message.

I had 3 loans around 2017 with different lenders, I got into financial difficulty and eventually had to stop making normal payments but rather made token payments.
I stopped making any payments approx Mar/Apr 20 (Im aware of the 5 year time barr in Scotland.)
All three loans were eventually bought over by Cabot and as expected they have been chasing me ever since for payment which I ignored until earlier this year.

I should also clarify that the only thing remaining on my credit file is the default for loan 1 which was sadly entered a lot later by the original lender in Nov 20.

I took out a mortgage with my wife in Aug 23 and in view of default this was with KMC.

It is a 12 year mortgage with a 5 year fixed.

My aim is at all costs avoid anything being added to my credit file before being in a position to get a favourable mortgage when the default drops which I believe will be Nov 25 or Nov 26 (Perhaps you could clarify)

Loan 1 - They eventually got to the stage where they threatened possible court action and it was then dealt with by Nolans Solicitors who I understand act for Cabot. I sent a letter denying any liability and asking for proof that the debt belonged to me. This was in May 24.

Following this all communication stopped until start of August 24 where they sent a copy of the loan agreement, Ts & Cs, statement. Everything was correct and full proof that this loan was mine. I have therefore entered into postal dialogue with them and offered to pay £1000 against a £6500 debt. They rejected this so I provided an I&E without providing employment details or mention of other loans and offered to pay £25 per month which they accepted.

They asked me for proposals for loans 2 & 3 however I denied any liability for these.

They then advised me they would try and source proof of debt.

This brings me to contacting you.

Loan 2 - They (Nolans) have now sent me what they advise is a copy of the loan agreement for loan 2 (£10.7k still owed) and statement and asked me for proposals within 14 days.

This loan was originally with ZOPA. What they have sent is headed "Your Zopa Loan Contract Summary"

I appreciate that this is a slightly different type of lender but it doesnt seem like an acceptable credit agreement for the purposes of proving this debt.

It lists me as borrower although states c/o Zopa Ltd as opposed to my address.

It does detail loan amount, total payable, term, APR, Rate - There is no signature section - digital or otherwise.

There are also lots of ts and cs.

I cant remember what was provided at the time.

My query is whether this is an acceptable credit agreement.

If so I would make them an offer as in Loan 1 however if not i would write to say that not accepting liability that it isnt acceptable proof of debt ownership.

Loan 3 - Not yet had any other response.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated

Regarding the address, it should have your address, not c/o Zopa Ltd.

Write to the creditor, state that they haven't complied with your CCA request under the CCA 1974.
Add that the FCA Guidelines state that they shouldn't mislead you when providing requested information.

You can quote 'Failure to Comply - CONC 13.1.6 (numbers 1, 2 and 3).

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

Also what the prescribed terms should be -

https://lawzone.legal/when-is-a-cred...unenforceable/

[coolhandct]

Many thanks for this, its much appreciated.

I have prepped my letter but just wanted to clarify a couple of things before sending.

As mentioned the Zopa Loan Contract Summary has my name but not my address.

This is obviously the basis of my reply.

As mentioned they also enclosed a "Loan Statement" dated 26/06/24 which does have my name and an old address on it. This appears as though its from ZOPA which is strange in view of date as it shows closing balance as at 30/03/21 presumably when Cabot took it over.

I just wanted to check if this would have any impact on my argument that the Contract Summary does not comply with CCA request in view of no address.

Also I mentioned that all the loans I had defaulted on have now dropped off my credit file apart from the one mentioned which defaulted Nov 20.

Is it 6 years in Scotland before this drops from my credit file.

Am I also correct that anything that has dropped off cannot be re entered on my credit file unless a successful court order was obtained.

[echat11]

Many thanks for this, its much appreciated.

I have prepped my letter but just wanted to clarify a couple of things before sending.

As mentioned the Zopa Loan Contract Summary has my name but not my address.

This is obviously the basis of my reply.

As mentioned they also enclosed a "Loan Statement" dated 26/06/24 which does have my name and an old address on it. This appears as though its from ZOPA which is strange in view of date as it shows closing balance as at 30/03/21 presumably when Cabot took it over.

I just wanted to check if this would have any impact on my argument that the Contract Summary does not comply with CCA request in view of no address.

Also I mentioned that all the loans I had defaulted on have now dropped off my credit file apart from the one mentioned which defaulted Nov 20.

Is it 6 years in Scotland before this drops from my credit file.

Am I also correct that anything that has dropped off cannot be re entered on my credit file unless a successful court order was obtained.

'The agreement', should have your address at the time the agreement was taken out.

The 'loan statement' if it's from 26/06/24, I'm presuming that it's showing whats outstanding as of 26/06/24, it should have your present address. They maybe trying to say something else, i.e. they've reconstructed the agreement from various sources, but it's a bit of a mess.

Is it 6 years in Scotland before this drops from my credit file.

Yes, 6 years.

Am I also correct that anything that has dropped off cannot be re entered on my credit file unless a successful court order was obtained.

Once a default has dropped off, it can't be added back.

[coolhandct]

'The agreement', should have your address at the time the agreement was taken out.

The 'loan statement' if it's from 26/06/24, I'm presuming that it's showing whats outstanding as of 26/06/24, it should have your present address. They maybe trying to say something else, i.e. they've reconstructed the agreement from various sources, but it's a bet of a mess.

Is it 6 years in Scotland before this drops from my credit file.

Yes, 6 years.

Am I also correct that anything that has dropped off cannot be re entered on my credit file unless a successful court order was obtained.

Once a default has dropped off, it can't be added back.

Thank you again

The Agreement doesnt have my address at all so I will go ahead and send the letter.

The loan statement dated 26/06/24 from Zopa has my old address on it, it does details info about loan etc but its a statement, not an agreement and its final entry is the balance as at 30/03/21 when Cabot must have taken over, the balance differs and does not match the balance as at 26/06/24 as I had been making token payments after this. The final payment showing on this is from Sep 18 yet closing bal is Mar 21.

There is then a statement from Cabot indicating period Sep 18 to Apr 24 showing the token payments but these show token payments made from Sep 18 to Mar 20 technically prior to when account with Zopa closed.

It does appear they are trying to take info from different sources.

I have checked back on bank statements and can see that the token payments were actually made to Cabot however these stopped in Mar 20.

However this wont affect the potential time bar if it comes to it of Mar 25 and Im presuming the request for them to prove the debt by providing a compliant CCA.

[echat11]

Thank you again

The Agreement doesnt have my address at all so I will go ahead and send the letter.

The loan statement dated 26/06/24 from Zopa has my old address on it, it does details info about loan etc but its a statement, not an agreement and its final entry is the balance as at 30/03/21 when Cabot must have taken over, the balance differs and does not match the balance as at 26/06/24 as I had been making token payments after this. The final payment showing on this is from Sep 18 yet closing bal is Mar 21.

There is then a statement from Cabot indicating period Sep 18 to Apr 24 showing the token payments but these show token payments made from Sep 18 to Mar 20 technically prior to when account with Zopa closed.

It does appear they are trying to take info from different sources.

I have checked back on bank statements and can see that the token payments were actually made to Cabot however these stopped in Mar 20.

However this wont affect the potential time bar if it comes to it of Mar 25 and Im presuming the request for them to prove the debt by providing a compliant CCA.

See what they comeback with, if they are 'Reconstructing' an agreement, then in their covering letter, they should be upfront, they should state in words that it's a 'reconstructed agreement', per FCA Rules.

Did you make a Formal request for a CCA agreement?

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...etter-example/

[coolhandct]

See what they comeback with, if they are 'Reconstructing' an agreement, then in their covering letter, they should be upfront, the should state in words that it's a 'reconstructed agreement', per FCA Rules.

Did you make a Formal request for a CCA agreement?

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...etter-example/

In their cover letter they say "We enclose a copy of the original agreement and statement of account for your records"

I didnt make a formal request for CCA agreement. As they tagged on to the end of their letter to me regarding propsals for loan 1 where they did provide suitable paperwork I basically said I was only discussing loan 1 and accepted no liability for anything else and was unaware of any other debt being owed.

They wrote confirming acceptance of offer for loan 1 then stated " We note you advise that you are unaware of any debt being owed with regards to the other two accounts we hold for you, account reference xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxx. We have therefore requested a copy of the agreements from our clients in respect of these and will provide once available"

That was on 04/09/24 then I received the letter with the so called agreement dated 25/09/24.

This was for loan 2 the one we are discussing. It seems strange that the statement is dated June 24 if they were asking for a copy early Sep 24?

Nothing yet for loan 3

As they have advised me they were requesting agreements I didnt think I needed to make a formal request for CCA.

Will this make a difference? Should I go ahead and do this?

[echat11]

In their cover letter they say "We enclose a copy of the original agreement and statement of account for your records"

I didnt make a formal request for CCA agreement. As they tagged on to the end of their letter to me regarding propsals for loan 1 where they did provide suitable paperwork I basically said I was only discussing loan 1 and accepted no liability for anything else and was unaware of any other debt being owed.

They wrote confirming acceptance of offer for loan 1 then stated " We note you advise that you are unaware of any debt being owed with regards to the other two accounts we hold for you, account reference xxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxx. We have therefore requested a copy of the agreements from our clients in respect of these and will provide once available"

That was on 04/09/24 then I received the letter with the so called agreement dated 25/09/24.

This was for loan 2 the one we are discussing. It seems strange that the statement is dated June 24 if they were asking for a copy early Sep 24?

Nothing yet for loan 3

As they have advised me they were requesting agreements I didnt think I needed to make a formal request for CCA.

Will this make a difference? Should I go ahead and do this?

I'd make formal requests., Them tagging bit's on the end of letters, means they can send you any nonsense. A formal request ties them into certain obligations under the CCA 1974 and FCA Rules.

You still have evidence of the nonsense sent first time round. You may even have reason to lodge a complaint with them.

Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

[coolhandct]

I'd make formal requests., Them tagging bit's on the end of letters, means they can send you any nonsense.
A formal request ties them into certain obligations under the CCA 1974 and FCA Rules.

You still have evidence of the nonsense sent first time round. You may even have reason to lodge a complaint
with them.

Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

Will do.

Is there any risk me sending a cheque for £1 fee, in terms of them having my bank details.

[echat11]

Will do.

Is there any risk me sending a cheque for £1 fee, in terms of them having my bank details.

No risk, you could send a Postal Order, if you prefer.

[coolhandct]

No risk, you could send a Postal Order, if you prefer.

Thank you again for all your assistance its really appreciated.

I realise that further down the line I may well need to accept liability for loan 2 but may as well ensure they have followed correct process.

Once I hear back I will let you know how I get on and will prob need guidance once they write re loan 3 as well

[coolhandct]

Thank you again for all your assistance its really appreciated.

I realise that further down the line I may well need to accept liability for loan 2 but may as well ensure they have followed correct process.

Once I hear back I will let you know how I get on and will prob need guidance once they write re loan 3 as well

Hey

As per my previous messages I sent 2 letters re loan 2.

The first one was as you suggested re failure to comply re the format of the agreement they sent and the second was to formally request a CCA.

Both were posted to Nolans solicitors.

I received a letter back from Nolans.

Its headed "Cabot Financial UK Ltd against You"

It simply says refer to above matter and ackowledge recent of most recent letter. Nolans Sols are a firm of sols who act on behalf of our client. We have passed on your request to our client. They will be in touch in due course......

I presume this is just a fairly standard response?

Still nothing in relation to loan 3.

[echat11]

Hey

As per my previous messages I sent 2 letters re loan 2.

The first one was as you suggested re failure to comply re the format of the agreement they sent and the second was to formally request a CCA.

Both were posted to Nolans solicitors.

I received a letter back from Nolans.

Its headed "Cabot Financial UK Ltd against You"

It simply says refer to above matter and ackowledge recent of most recent letter. Nolans Sols are a firm of sols who act on behalf of our client. We have passed on your request to our client. They will be in touch in due course......

I presume this is just a fairly standard response?

Still nothing in relation to loan 3.

Yes standard response.

[coolhandct]

Hi
This post relates to loan 3 which previously I had no response.
They had advised a few months back they were going to obtain copies of agreement.

Ive now received a pack from Nolans

The letter advises they enclose copy of agreement with original creditor, copy of Notice of Assignation, copy of SOA and copy of Arrears Notice.

They go on to say as per previous their clients (Cabot) had instructed them to raise court action and to avoid this to make an instalment offer along with an income and expenditure form.

Ive looked through all the paperwork and its a correct copy of loan agreement containing my signature along with T&C's, statement from original lender, notice of assignment to cabot.

Everything looks ok.

My next action was going to send a copy of I&E used for loan 1 which I am paying £25 per month and offer £25 per month for this loan 3 as well.

I just wanted to check this seemed this most sensible option as I dont really have any further options.

Nothing yet for loan 2 in response to me sending postal order for CCA request.

[coolhandct]

Hi
This post relates to loan 3 which previously I had no response.
They had advised a few months back they were going to obtain copies of agreement.

Ive now received a pack from Nolans

The letter advises they enclose copy of agreement with original creditor, copy of Notice of Assignation, copy of SOA and copy of Arrears Notice.

They go on to say as per previous their clients (Cabot) had instructed them to raise court action and to avoid this to make an instalment offer along with an income and expenditure form.

Ive looked through all the paperwork and its a correct copy of loan agreement containing my signature along with T&C's, statement from original lender, notice of assignment to cabot.

Everything looks ok.

My next action was going to send a copy of I&E used for loan 1 which I am paying £25 per month and offer £25 per month for this loan 3 as well.

I just wanted to check this seemed this most sensible option as I dont really have any further options.

Nothing yet for loan 2 in response to me sending postal order for CCA request.

I should also clarify that loan 3 has approx £12780 due.

In my letter I was also going to offer £1500 as full settlement of loan 3 from a family member. Im sure this will be rejected as I had made similar offer of £1000 for loan 1.

I thought it might however give them something to fall back on maybe after a year or 2.